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Qualität des Beitrags: Beteiligte Poster: Kouenzan - nooK - tegeus-Cromis - Aray - Metal Sonic - Forbidden - Galefury - IMassAcolyte - Anonymous - Black_Mage - Omerta - PhiniX - Thanatos_820 - grandxavatar Forum: Samurai Legends Forenbeschreibung: Official forums aus dem Unterforum: Ideas Antworten: 80 Forum gestartet am: Mittwoch 06.10.2004 Sprache: englisch Link zum Originaltopic: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes Letzte Antwort: vor 17 Jahren, 1 Monat, 16 Tagen, 1 Stunde, 18 Minuten
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Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Kouenzan - 25.05.2006, 17:31Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
hey nook how about changing the fountain model? it doesn't suit the theme.. maybe using the banner with aura?? hehe
also, the terrain in the base, it seems too plain.. adding some effects/doodads may do?
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
nooK - 26.05.2006, 22:25
There will be a new terrain in one of the next versions, which is smaller and has more open areas.
You can suggest layouts and stuff for it!
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Kouenzan - 27.05.2006, 05:20
the terrain in the base is too plain, maybe adding doodads like cherry blossom trees?? hehehe and the main building, too big for its small collision size. making the collision size may do. also change the fountain model :) and make the shops near it. well im not good at suggesting terrain :D
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
tegeus-Cromis - 28.05.2006, 19:07
Another thing: could the Shinobi's colour be changed a little? In the heat of battle, he looks too much like the ninja.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
nooK - 28.05.2006, 23:06
Just watch for the white hair n00b ;)
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Kouenzan - 29.05.2006, 10:28
haha shinobi seems to be fine :)
(in naruto, they are called shinobi and ninja, hell i don't know what's real!!)
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
tegeus-Cromis - 29.05.2006, 10:46
LOL, okay. I just wish he looked a little more distinctive, rather than just a maskless ninja. . . .
Shinobi = ninja, btw. You just can't expect nooK to call the heroes Ninja 1, Ninja 2 and Ninja 3, can you? :shock: :P
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Kouenzan - 29.05.2006, 11:38
:lol: hahahaha
it will suck! :P hmmm
a white shinobi? like the custom skin invoker! :P
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
tegeus-Cromis - 29.05.2006, 12:05
I'm just thinking something small, like a brighter colour for the shoulder pads.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Kouenzan - 29.05.2006, 12:13
ahh you wanted the shinobi to be different with other ninjas.. great suggestion you have there :P wish nook accpt it :P
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Kouenzan - 31.05.2006, 15:37
hey nook, how about making the forests like this
[img]http://www.wc3campaigns.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=3653&d=1143509912[/img]
i have read the topic in this forum (aray posted) that would be a nice addition in the terrain :P
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Aray - 02.06.2006, 15:58
I'm also wondering, will there stil be 4 lanes?.. I just don't like it... :P It just doesn't fit any group of players other than 4v4... 3v3=one short. 5v5=3 alone, while 2 has to be together and share xp and creeps->they become the weak ones. If you made it 6v6 compatible this could slightly improve the players options though, since it could then be two pairs and two solos, but I would still prefer just 3 lanes. You could have an optional lane instead, where you can make a special kind of pushing, get it?.. Like, in a great costum AoS map wich died ( :cry: ) there was a top lane where two ents where fighting. If you left them alone, they would just kill eachother all the time and do nothing, but if you went up there and assissted, you could defeat the other ("evil") ents, and now the toplane would be sending ents into the upper defences of the enemy. I think this is a great way of making additional ways of pushing, and also this make yet another great difference from DotA.
So I suggest you make 3 ordinary lanes, and one lane for some kind of special activity, where nothing should happen unless you make some sort of actions.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
tegeus-Cromis - 02.06.2006, 17:44
One of my earlier suggestions in this vein (as I also find the 4-lane format awkward) was to have the two mid lanes merge where they meet the river, so you can farm alone but easily link up to push/def together.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
nooK - 02.06.2006, 18:17
The terrain change won´t be a small edit, it must be completely remade -> smaller, more open, more tactical!
I think I know a person who could do it, but I have no ideas about it :(
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Aray - 02.06.2006, 21:13
Remember to also put focus on such things as:High/low terrain - Making hills (like the mid section in DotA) to create annoying fog and being able to advance on the enemy easier without having to backstab.
Trees - creating certain paths to escape/surprise through or hide in etc.
Special spots - maybe you could add some cool hiding spots, like being able to hide behind falling water and such ;)
And btw, you never said anything else about my transparency-idea... Could it or could it not work?.. If it's at least possible to do it I would love to test it out with you and see if it could be fun and not too complicated for the gameplay.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Metal Sonic - 02.06.2006, 21:34
The one thing I would suggest is make sure the trees are rotated and that they are lowered into the ground, that's the only thing that really bothers me. :wink:
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Aray - 03.06.2006, 22:22Gonna reply soon? :(
I am still waiting for a somewhat constructive reply to these two threads:
Quote: I'm also wondering, will there stil be 4 lanes?.. I just don't like it... It just doesn't fit any group of players other than 4v4... 3v3=one short. 5v5=3 alone, while 2 has to be together and share xp and creeps->they become the weak ones. If you made it 6v6 compatible this could slightly improve the players options though, since it could then be two pairs and two solos, but I would still prefer just 3 lanes. You could have an optional lane instead(...)
Quote: Remember to also put focus on such things as:
High/low terrain(...)
And btw, you never said anything else about my transparency-idea(...)
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
nooK - 03.06.2006, 22:37
Oh sorry, I try to answer all posts/questions but sometimes it`s getting a bit chaotic so I missed this one.
Quote: Remember to also put focus on such things as:
High/low terrain(...)
And btw, you never said anything else about my transparency-idea(...)
Yes it will hopefully have those things (hidding behind a waterfall :P), thanks for your ideas.
About the transparency idea: It would need hundreds of regions and triggers, don´t think I will add it.
Quote: I'm also wondering, will there stil be 4 lanes?.. I just don't like it... It just doesn't fit any group of players other than 4v4... 3v3=one short. 5v5=3 alone, while 2 has to be together and share xp and creeps->they become the weak ones. If you made it 6v6 compatible this could slightly improve the players options though, since it could then be two pairs and two solos, but I would still prefer just 3 lanes. You could have an optional lane instead(...)
This depends on the new terrain, currently I´m thinking of keeping the 4 lanes but making them cross like tegeus-cromis and others suggested.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Forbidden - 05.06.2006, 23:37
Hmm...the trees could be made transparent but I dont really think it would be of any use since then no one could hide in the forest anymore. Unless it was made so that they are only transparent to the one who is inside the forest. That could work. But that could be kind of troublesome since just as nooK said it would require alot of triggers and tinkering.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Galefury - 06.06.2006, 02:12
EDIT: Better picture in next post
Well, how about this as a layout for paths through the forersts/mountains and lanes?
A few points to note:
1. Front and side entrances are pretty much identical, but the center lanes cross, which means if the enemy is adding pressure to your main in lower right that will actually ease the pressure on his left entrance. This might add an easier way to defend your main against spawn influx from a destroyed expo. You can still atack, while defending, and the spawns sent to mid will be able to face the spawns from the expo at 1:1 odds, and will acutally meet them because they have a bit of the way together.
2. The paths through the forests make it easy to switch between side lanes and center lanes, and allow for directly going from attack on the towers of a side lane to attack on an expo and vice versa. Defense is neturally a bit further away, but there is not much to do about that. Teleporters might be too fast. Also note that the enemy needs to cross through tower fire from the enemy expo if they want to help the pushing in that lane, or take the long way around. The parallel bits are for going around and backstabbing the enemy for example. You can also jump/blink to the side lanes from there at some points, to the middle lanes at others.
I think I will make a better version of that picture to show those points better, this was only a very quick sketch. The way between the mid lanes in front of the bases is for quickly switching side if there is an attack on the main base, or if you just are just completely on the wrong side and are still close to the base. Changing those to teleporters would make defending and attacking main more interesting maybe, could be nice. Maybe gates that close and open every so often, so you can switch side, wait for the portal to close, then attack.
I will also make another suggestion for the crossing lanes maybe.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Galefury - 06.06.2006, 03:19
Well, this should make things more clear. Where the hidden paths are close to the lanes you can blink but not move or see through. The hiding spots are so people cant feel save from ambushes on that part of the lane. Note that the red/blue dots on the center lanes are just towers, not Dojos.
The asymetric design was an accident at first, but I think the expo lanes need some difference anyway, so one being a bit more removed from the action than the other one wouldn't be so bad I think.
The spawns from the right go to the left in the middle and vice versa. The area around that location is pretty open and allows for nice big hero battles.
Movement from the top lane to middle and the other way is quite fast, making it basically an extension of the middle lane. People can switch from hero killing in middle where the big spawn amounts meet and the most exp is to sieging/defending top quickly. Bottom is quite different, it takes a while to get there, also the lane itself is slightly longer than top, making it a better location for spawn shrines.
I'm not sure about shop placement, though, probably one of the secret shops should be in the bottom right corner and the other one somewhere around the top hidden path. The more low-end items should be sold by both shops, the mid-powered ones by the easily accessible top shop, the most powerful items in the remote bottom shop. This would put neither of the expo lanes at a significant item-getting disadvantage early on, would make the bottom lane more of a focus late game, and the top lane more of a focus early and midgame. Battles around the shops and invis ninja item stealing could be interesting. Maybe give truesight around the shops if stealing gets out of hand.
The setting of the attention focus would go well with the distance of the lanes from mid, too. Midgame quick surprise attacks can easily take down a tower or two, and when you are at the shop anyway and the push is going well, why not stop by to help? During late game when you need the strong items both teams will probably want to put more focus on the bottom lane for easy access to high-powered items. Otherwise they are looking at quite a journey from top to bottom for their items.
The advantage of the common first part of the expo and mid lanes and the layout of the secret paths is explained in the previous post.
Questions, suggestions?
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
tegeus-Cromis - 06.06.2006, 10:51
I like it (of course, I am not entirely unbiased, having first suggested the crossing mid lanes :P). Where't he river, though? It may be generic, but I like it, and the current location of Hashiba the Fallen. Not much else to say except well done.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Galefury - 06.06.2006, 11:09
This is more of a gameplay related suggestion, so I just made everything that is impassable green. The river is nice, though, and the location in the lake too. Maybe the lake could be on the top hidden path, with Hashiba in the middle of it, accessible from both sides of the path. Then the river could go through there, with one lane crossing it as a bridge and one being a shallow part of the river. Then it could drop down to some other lane as a waterfall (hiding spot) and end in a small puddle of water there.
Also about cosmetics and differences between lanes: Maybe make one side (top or bottom) of the map an area with mountains, the other one an area with forests. The mountain area could have a few changes in elevation on its lanes, and a plateu and a waterfall as hiding spots. The forest area could have trees in some places on the lanes, slightly obstructing vision and making it harder to move around. A small clearing and a less dense area of forest could be hiding spots.
Also note that the large impassable areas could have another dojo each, sending additional spawns to mid. This would make mid interesting for pushing, because you could attack the dojo then (without creep support, though), and it would add more exp to the middle lanes, which would make them more attractive and would lead to bigger battles in the middle area. I'll make another pic for this suggestion.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Galefury - 06.06.2006, 11:21
The round spots are dojos. No fountain, 2 towers on each side, not attacked by any spawns. The spawns from the dojos should alternate between going left and right imo (first wave left, second wave right, third wave left, fourth wave right, ...). Or they could just always be evently split. Or they could randomly all go left or all go right. When they hit the main lane they should just have the same paths as the spawns there, not attacking the opposing mid dojo. This would make it more of a bonus location, not a normal target for pushing. It would also be a very nice location for a shrine of merchants for example, but quite exposed after the towers in either middle lane have fallen.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
tegeus-Cromis - 06.06.2006, 11:30
I'm not for the mid dojos; they seem like unnecessary complications to me.
On another note, have you considered neutral creep camps? Just 1-2 per side.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Kouenzan - 06.06.2006, 14:21
placing runes at the waterfall and in the middle of the lake? so those areas will be worth of exploration
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Galefury - 06.06.2006, 14:29
tegeus-Cromis wrote: I'm not for the mid dojos; they seem like unnecessary complications to me.
On another note, have you considered neutral creep camps? Just 1-2 per side.
Well, any other suggestions on how to make the mid lanes more attractive? ToB just spawns twice as powerful creep waves with twice as much experience there than on the expo lanes. A nice way to get a lot of heros to mid early on for some ganking action, but there could be a better way I think. In dota it's just the shortest way to the enemy base and thus a rax to destroy.
Adding a dojo would be one way of giving more exp to mid and thus bring more heros there (would be pretty much made for a 3 in mid, 1 on each expo setup from the exp distribution). And it could also keep mid important during midgame and give a purpose to destroying mid towers early - opening up a way to attack the mid dojo easily during midgame.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Kouenzan - 06.06.2006, 15:22
i like the concept of mid-creeps that'll intersect. hero-clashing in the mid in early games, not like dota, they start to clash in mid-games.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
nooK - 06.06.2006, 17:14
There is one problem about your terrain Gale, it´s all narrow, even narrower than the actual terrain.
This is what I came up with:
Red = base
Purple = towers
White/Green = unacessible terrain
Should be symmetric, but you know paint... ;)
http://home.arcor.de/markusbrugger/sl/Bild1.bmp
This is what makes ToB so good, the ooooooopen terrain :)
Also I don´t know about the crossing lanes: There will always be maaaany spawns in the mid and the spawns can be drawn from one lane to another by attacking them and running.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Galefury - 06.06.2006, 17:17
I just wanted to show ideas for how the paths could run. How wide and accessible they could be wasn't exactly my main concern. *g*
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
IMassAcolyte - 06.06.2006, 21:27
I dont like how the side lanes combine when the get close to the base on gales idea. I mean look, you have towers at the front of the base for what? there are no towers at the side entrances other than the one that is supposed to defend the front. However the 2 mid lanes crossing in the center is brilliant! Thats highly original ive never seen it before. 1 question though: Will the troops still go straight or will they criss cross with the lanes?
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
tegeus-Cromis - 06.06.2006, 21:40
Looks great, nooK! I think gameplay will become significantly more exciting with the new terrain.
A few things, though.
1) Does this mean there will no longer be a river? That makes me sad; I liked Hashiba and his little island in particular.
2) Could you incorporate a few tiny paths in the otherwise impassable areas (around mid, maybe) leading to niches where a small number of neutral creeps can be found? You have not indicated whether you are favourable to introducing a few wolves and bandits to the map for players to kil, but I hope you will consider it.
3) It has always been the case that the lane towers prevent backstabs, so I take it this is so by design, but I hope you will rethink it. The inability to backstab due to those towers is one of the things contributing to the slow early game. Consider shifting the towers up so a backstabbing opponent does not have to run between them; this would not be unfair as it woudl still be easy for the victim to retreat to his towers.
IMassAcolytes: Quote: I dont like how the side lanes combine when the get close to the base on gales idea. I mean look, you have towers at the front of the base for what? there are no towers at the side entrances other than the one that is supposed to defend the front.
I think the red quarter circles represent the base in tis entirety (i.e. base towers are there, but not drawn).
[Edit: Oh, you weren't referring to nooK's drawing. My mistake.]
Quote: However the 2 mid lanes crossing in the center is brilliant! Thats highly original ive never seen it before.
Totally. :wink:
Quote: 1 question though: Will the troops still go straight or will they criss cross with the lanes?
Good question. I would suggest having them go straight, as making them criss cross would introduce pathing issues that would probably have creeps milling about a lot in mid (you can already see this happening a bit in base now).
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Galefury - 06.06.2006, 22:35
I'm all for criss-crossing.
And Acolyte, of course the base layout would need to be changed if there were only 2 entrances. I just didnt draw them.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
tegeus-Cromis - 06.06.2006, 23:23
Why are you all for making the creep pathing criss-cross? What would it add?
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Anonymous - 07.06.2006, 08:12
an early game clash :)
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Galefury - 07.06.2006, 09:49
Well, combined with only 2 entrances it would add that if you push one entrance, pressure on your main is eased on the other side. Which means if your bottom expo is down, you can prevent your main from getting horribly raped by attacking the top entrance. If nook keeps the 4 or 3 entrances it doesn't really matter, though.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
nooK - 07.06.2006, 11:47
Yes the 3/4 entrances will be kept I think. But we still need to find a terrainer :(
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
IMassAcolyte - 07.06.2006, 21:13
Quote: of course the base layout would need to be changed if there were only 2 entrances. I just didnt draw them.
My bad then :(
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
nooK - 07.06.2006, 23:16
More comments on my terrain sketch please :D
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
tegeus-Cromis - 07.06.2006, 23:50
Some response to my comments on your terrain sketch, please. :wink:
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
nooK - 08.06.2006, 00:03
Quote: 1) Does this mean there will no longer be a river? That makes me sad; I liked Hashiba and his little island in particular.
There will be a river somewhere :P
Quote: 2) Could you incorporate a few tiny paths in the otherwise impassable areas (around mid, maybe) leading to niches where a small number of neutral creeps can be found? You have not indicated whether you are favourable to introducing a few wolves and bandits to the map for players to kil, but I hope you will consider it.
No I don`t like having creeps, players then fight those creeps instead of joining the battle. Also this would take a player slot (maybe some time we want 6vs6, don´t know yet..)
Quote: 3) It has always been the case that the lane towers prevent backstabs, so I take it this is so by design, but I hope you will rethink it. The inability to backstab due to those towers is one of the things contributing to the slow early game. Consider shifting the towers up so a backstabbing opponent does not have to run between them; this would not be unfair as it woudl still be easy for the victim to retreat to his towers.
Yes you´re right, will consider that for the new terrain :D
Sorry that I didn´t comment but sometimes I just forget to answer or don´t have the time, there are many posts (which is very good :) )!
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
tegeus-Cromis - 08.06.2006, 00:34
Quote: There will be a river somewhere
Okay, good. :)
Quote: No I don`t like having creeps, players then fight those creeps instead of joining the battle.
Nah, I don't think that would happen. Only noobs or Naix players do that in DotA, and the ones I am proposing for SL would not be DotA-type creeps, where some of the camps give you a load of exp and upwards of 200 gold; we're talking a handful of bandits and wolves.
I just think it would make the make the map more interesting. It doesn't seem really alive now, if you know what I mean.
Or if you don't want creeps, put in some critters at least. Anything that moves will do. :P
Quote: Also this would take a player slot (maybe some time we want 6vs6, don´t know yet..)
6v6 would be great, IMHO. Perhaps less so in 0.7, with the limited number of heroes, but with the 2-3 new ones the next version would have, it only makes sense. After all, there are 4 lanes, not the usual 3.
On another note, though I know nothing about mapping, I was under the impression that it would be possible to have 6v6 and still have neutrals, as Ice Frog was seen to comment that he could add another two player slots to DotA (though he did not think it was a good idea).
Quote: Yes you´re right, will consider that for the new terrain
Yay. Looks like the early game is about to get a lot more exciting. :twisted:
Quote: Sorry that I didn´t comment but sometimes I just forget to answer or don´t have the time, there are many posts (which is very good !
It's no problem, just it is more likely that you will get more comments on your terrain sketch after addressing the comments already made.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Metal Sonic - 08.06.2006, 00:55
6v6 is possible, it has been done in Age of Myths, but apparently he had to script neutral passive and hostile for the teams, so that would put creeps out of the question I think. :(
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
IMassAcolyte - 08.06.2006, 02:48
Idk tegeus... think, if there are hostile nuetral creeps around it would be too much like dota. End of story. Another thing, if you want backstabbing paths, there will be creeps on them, so you have to go through them first. 1 of 2 possibilities would come out of this:
1) You successfully kill the hostile neutrals and are on your way; but you are weakened by the creeps and the backstab might backFIRE.
2) You still successfully kill them, BUT the enemy hero has moved and is no longer able to be back stabbed because of the position he is in.
Im all for backstabbing, BUT i dont think the creeps are a good idea.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Kouenzan - 08.06.2006, 10:33
oh nook, what happened to your terrainer? (elthanor, am i correct?)
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
nooK - 08.06.2006, 10:39
Yes Elthanor, he just hasn´t time to do it, life you know :(
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Kouenzan - 08.06.2006, 10:55
awww too bad, so busy in his life no more time in hobby :P
so basically, the terrainer will make a new terrain or just modify the existing terrain?
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
nooK - 08.06.2006, 10:56
Must be a new terrain, I think but I hopefully we can keep the old style, I really love it.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
tegeus-Cromis - 08.06.2006, 15:41
Has he dropped out of the project or is he just not free at this point in time? The current terrain is very nice, and it would be a pity if he were totally unable to terrain for you in future. :cry:
Kouenzan: Quote: Idk tegeus... think, if there are hostile nuetral creeps around it would be too much like dota. End of story.
Neutral creeps are a staple on many maps, including the original WC3 maps. DotA does not have any sort of monopoly on them. Might as well say that getting gold for hero kills is too much like DotA.
Quote: Another thing, if you want backstabbing paths, there will be creeps on them, so you have to go through them first. 1 of 2 possibilities would come out of this:
1) You successfully kill the hostile neutrals and are on your way; but you are weakened by the creeps and the backstab might backFIRE.
2) You still successfully kill them, BUT the enemy hero has moved and is no longer able to be back stabbed because of the position he is in.
Im all for backstabbing, BUT i dont think the creeps are a good idea.
Dude, have you ever played DotA or ladder? You don't put the neutral creeps smack in the middle of paths; you put them in little niches where they can be avoided if you wish.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
IMassAcolyte - 09.06.2006, 00:37
Uh hellooo I SAID THAT not Kouenzan :shock:
Quote: You don't put the neutral creeps smack in the middle of paths
True: But if there are bandits, they are obviously going to try and stop you in your tracks. They arent ninja, they dont hide and wait for you. They go right up to you.
HOWEVER.... What if we hav Rouge Ninja for some creeps? Then they wouldnt be in the path, BUT theyd be on the sides waiting for someone to pass so they can be jumped... Like an ambush! But they only spawn at night and only attack at night as well... How about that?
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Metal Sonic - 09.06.2006, 00:58
Hmm, well... I AM a terrainer, but I probably wouldn't be able to finish such a map, too big :( If you wanted me to try though, I could start something...
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
tegeus-Cromis - 09.06.2006, 10:06
Sorry, Mass! My mistake.
Quote: True: But if there are bandits, they are obviously going to try and stop you in your tracks. They arent ninja, they dont hide and wait for you. They go right up to you.
Perhaps they are intimidated by your obvious martial prowess? :P
Quote: HOWEVER.... What if we hav Rouge Ninja for some creeps? Then they wouldnt be in the path, BUT theyd be on the sides waiting for someone to pass so they can be jumped... Like an ambush! But they only spawn at night and only attack at night as well... How about that?
Well, it doesn't seem to me like a very Ninja thing to do. I dunno.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Galefury - 09.06.2006, 16:58
Well, comments on your terrain pic, nook:
1. I really hate the cross shape of the middle area. I think it should be completely open. Maybe with some changes in terrain height or some trees to hide in, but no impassable cross shape. The lanes can cross by just making them really switch sides, or just by making the pathing so they meet without any actualy need to do so.
2. The top and bottom lanes should be different, not the same. There should just be some differences between lanes. Give players a choice not just between middle and expo, but also between top and bottom expo.
3. I still think there should be just 2 entrances to the main base and the center and expo lanes should unite before hitting the bases. Your choice though.
Otherwise it seems quite nice, being rather open, but not completely open.
Oh, and about 6v6: Would be cool. Add a few more heros, then 6v6 plz. :D
And actually AoM wasn't the first 6v6 AoS, ToB was. Vile even got help from the makers of ToB for implementing it AFAIK.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Anonymous - 09.06.2006, 22:11
Quote: I still think there should be just 2 entrances to the main base and the center and expo lanes should unite before hitting the bases
Now when i commented on your mappout of the game earlier, thats what i dont like gale. 2 Entrances isnt enough... For the troops sake i mean. There could be a huge clog in the system trying to get out and everyones all tangled. Kinda like whats going on in 7.0. Ive seen troops go all the way around the walls trying to get out cause theres a clog and that lane is normally the weakest cause its missing 1 soldier. whether its an archer or a cavalry... 1 soldier can make all the difference (which it does normally)
I suggest 5 entrances: 2 on sides, 3 in center. The very middle one is for enemy troops to enter the base, the 2 on the sides are for the allied troops to get out of the base (to prevent clogging).but dont make the side ones too far from the center ones cause if you do that then the enemy troops will go unapposed in the base.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
IMassAcolyte - 09.06.2006, 22:14
Ok taking a second look at nooks drawing of it, there will be no clog. Thats perfect nook. 4 entrances is good.
P.S. The guest that just posted was me :D
P.P.S. Disreguard what i said about 5 entrances :?
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Aray - 06.08.2006, 22:07
I apologise for not having put this idea behind me yet, but it's just that new things have showed up, and I'd like to give this suggestion another try now: Transparent trees! :P Why do I love transparent trees? Check out all the old martial arts movies and you'll see that so many of them have amazingly beatiful forest-fight scenes. I still think this could be a great and very unique addition to your map, also because it supports new ways of gameplay.
I'll get to the point then. When I first suggested this, it ended up like this:
nooK wrote: About the transparency idea: It would need hundreds of regions and triggers, don´t think I will add it. - But that's not the case now: http://www.wc3campaigns.net/showthread.php?t=85952
As I understand it, you could use this system to easily make it work.
Wellwell, I don't really have any high expectations for this, but I just couldn't let it go without letting you know that there's an easy way of doing it ;)
Okay then, about terrain in general then, what's the status on the upcoming terrain?.. I might have said this somewhere else, but I think I ended up not posting it: To be honest, I don't really enjoy the map that much with the current terrain. Its got way too few ways of exploiding the terrain to your advantage. Few places to hide/ambush, almost no heights/deeps(?), and it's quite big and therefore hard to navigate quickly through it. I know that you are already fully aware of these things, infact it sounded like you already knew when I listed those things and some more a while back ;) I just felt like I had to point them out again, since I feel it's such a critical essence to the gameplay. For a good and normal effective terrainer, this shouldn't take more than a week if the plan is more or less set already. Note: This will be my last terrainwhine :P
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Black_Mage - 07.08.2006, 00:05
You know what why dont u put some more structures in the base like houses and they ll have no efect to the game just for enviorment in the base. It's cool to walk in an feudal japan city full of structures.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Omerta - 07.08.2006, 00:14
Aray:
Any idea how hardware consuming are those trees? I will give my support to adding them if they aren't heavy, but if they are, well, bleh. My computer sucks and it would be annoying to play when an extra effect makes the map too heavy. :p
Black_Mage:
Nook planned to get a new terrain for 0.8, but seems that it isn't going to happen before he finds someone to do it so it will be left to future versions. Cityscape would propably look good, but I'm not sure how would it work in action, fighting at narrow streets compared to fighting at open field.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Black_Mage - 07.08.2006, 00:20
OMG fighting in streets is the coolest can u imagin night,cold weater, old japanese street 2 samurais fighting till death that is even good sceene for a movie :D
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Omerta - 07.08.2006, 00:23
Imagine spamming Area of effect spells in a narrow area. :L
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Black_Mage - 07.08.2006, 00:27
LooooooooooooL i didnt understand that very good but he wont make the hole city tokyo :DD he ll just add a few civillian buildings like in dota... but old japan is cooler :D
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
nooK - 07.08.2006, 01:40
Yes we really have to find a new terrainer, I love the look of the current terrain but gameplay could be improved a lot by a new one.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Black_Mage - 07.08.2006, 02:11
You must see my vision of the towns share my vision :P
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Aray - 11.08.2006, 19:32
Aray wrote: I apologise for not having put this idea behind me yet, but it's just that new things have showed up, and I'd like to give this suggestion another try now: Transparent trees! :P Why do I love transparent trees? Check out all the old martial arts movies and you'll see that so many of them have amazingly beatiful forest-fight scenes. I still think this could be a great and very unique addition to your map, also because it supports new ways of gameplay.
I'll get to the point then. When I first suggested this, it ended up like this:
nooK wrote: About the transparency idea: It would need hundreds of regions and triggers, don´t think I will add it. - But that's not the case now: http://www.wc3campaigns.net/showthread.php?t=85952
As I understand it, you could use this system to easily make it work.
Wellwell, I don't really have any high expectations for this, but I just couldn't let it go without letting you know that there's an easy way of doing it ;)
Okay then, about terrain in general then, what's the status on the upcoming terrain?.. I might have said this somewhere else, but I think I ended up not posting it: To be honest, I don't really enjoy the map that much with the current terrain. Its got way too few ways of exploiding the terrain to your advantage. Few places to hide/ambush, almost no heights/deeps(?), and it's quite big and therefore hard to navigate quickly through it. I know that you are already fully aware of these things, infact it sounded like you already knew when I listed those things and some more a while back ;) I just felt like I had to point them out again, since I feel it's such a critical essence to the gameplay. For a good and normal effective terrainer, this shouldn't take more than a week if the plan is more or less set already. Note: This will be my last terrainwhine :P - Could you please have a look at this post now nooK? I posted it quite recently, but it got drowned in the spam of a certain black fellah...
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
nooK - 11.08.2006, 20:29
Sorry didn´t see it because of the spam, you`re right..
Ok, this looks much better to me as for the looks. But to be honest for the new terrain I didn´t want to much trees (more open spaces) and the trees as "blocker", so you can`t walk through them. But I get your idea and maybe some small walkable forest can go into the new terrain.
I don`t know yet.
Already contacted quite some terrainers, most went inactive or have no time..
But I will continue searching a good terrainer.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Black_Mage - 18.08.2006, 22:16
So nook did you changed the terrain in 0.8 version?
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
tegeus-Cromis - 18.08.2006, 22:35
You know, despite how badly Black_Mage's suggestions are presented, I think this one is really quite sound. It's true that the bases are, at the moment, really bare--you don't even always have LoS in your own base! A few 'useless' buildings, strategically placed in the bases, would do a lot to enhance the feel of the map. They could be made invulnerable so their addition doesn't make base-pushing any slower.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
nooK - 21.08.2006, 18:32
Yes, sadly I´m not good at terraining but I tried some things to make the bases look a bit better.
Added some water on the left side.
And some invulnerable huts at the right side.
Hopefully it looks better now.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
tegeus-Cromis - 21.08.2006, 18:43
That looks nicer--and I take it you now always have LoS of your whole base?--but those huts look exactly like towers. . . .
Right-after-posting edit: Doh! But of course, towers have not looked like that since 0.65. -_- Forget I said that. It all looks good, then. :)
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
nooK - 21.08.2006, 18:56
Hehe cromis, still playing 0.65? :P
Maybe I can get a better model later, but Metal_Sonic64 seems to be busy at the moment.
And yes you have line of sight everyhwere in your base now.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Black_Mage - 22.08.2006, 13:13
WoW nice job nook.Its cool.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
PhiniX - 16.11.2006, 19:22
Ay nook if u need an terrainer u can ask me if I'm not currently working on my own map ~~
but if u would ask me it would be an honor for me to do it :o
so think about it .. and btw its just a suggestion to make a new terrain right ? ...
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Thanatos_820 - 25.11.2006, 06:24
I have 1 optional suggestion:
How about making the map winter style in one version (since it's getting pretty close to Christmas, and almost everyone's nearly does it for AoS maps like DotA). If there is some difficulties about the doodads and decorations, change the tinting color to a bluish-green instead. As a matter of fact...maybe as you create more versions, you can change the terrain to each of the 4 seasons (the current version (0.85) looks like summer/spring).
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
PhiniX - 27.11.2006, 16:06
Thanatos_820 wrote: I have 1 optional suggestion:
How about making the map winter style in one version (since it's getting pretty close to Christmas, and almost everyone's nearly does it for AoS maps like DotA). If there is some difficulties about the doodads and decorations, change the tinting color to a bluish-green instead. As a matter of fact...maybe as you create more versions, you can change the terrain to each of the 4 seasons (the current version (0.85) looks like summer/spring).
O ya ... what will come next ? santa claus in old japan ? Guy this map is not like "DotA" and its an AoS-map with his own style - old japanese - i think the terrain would't look good with an freezed terrain ... it should stay diffrent from other AoS-style based maps , ... so who cares if the guys of "DotA" will make it in christmas style ? .... also the map would lost his "flare" i think if u change the terrain into winter ... and btw who would wanna have the SL vs 0.85 in 4 different seasons ??? ....
.... thinking befor posting ... thx .. PhiniX
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Omerta - 27.11.2006, 18:00
Thanatos_820 wrote: I have 1 optional suggestion:
How about making the map winter style in one version (since it's getting pretty close to Christmas, and almost everyone's nearly does it for AoS maps like DotA). If there is some difficulties about the doodads and decorations, change the tinting color to a bluish-green instead. As a matter of fact...maybe as you create more versions, you can change the terrain to each of the 4 seasons (the current version (0.85) looks like summer/spring).
Personally I don't really like that there is a horde of same map floating around with few (minor) changes in each version. Life is easier when there is just one version around, the latest. Suggestion taken, but I find it highly unlikely that its going to happen.
EDIT: PhiniX, behave less aggressively, please.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
PhiniX - 27.11.2006, 19:56
Omerta wrote: EDIT: PhiniX, behave less aggressively, please hehe sry if i sound like that :lol: .. but u know me om im sometimes a bit hard against newcomer ... sry for that :wink:
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Forbidden - 28.11.2006, 14:29
Yep, please no separate version for all 4 seasons.
But...a single "Christmas Special" couldn't be all that bad, no?
Something simple, some fantastic idiocy, like add Santa Claus as a moving merchant somewhere in the forest or something :) . I don't think realism would be a must, if it was for just a single "special edition".
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Thanatos_820 - 02.12.2006, 03:04
PhiniX wrote: Thanatos_820 wrote: I have 1 optional suggestion:
How about making the map winter style in one version (since it's getting pretty close to Christmas, and almost everyone's nearly does it for AoS maps like DotA). If there is some difficulties about the doodads and decorations, change the tinting color to a bluish-green instead. As a matter of fact...maybe as you create more versions, you can change the terrain to each of the 4 seasons (the current version (0.85) looks like summer/spring).
O ya ... what will come next ? santa claus in old japan ? Guy this map is not like "DotA" and its an AoS-map with his own style - old japanese - i think the terrain would't look good with an freezed terrain ... it should stay diffrent from other AoS-style based maps , ... so who cares if the guys of "DotA" will make it in christmas style ? .... also the map would lost his "flare" i think if u change the terrain into winter ... and btw who would wanna have the SL vs 0.85 in 4 different seasons ??? ....
.... thinking befor posting ... thx .. PhiniX
Did I ever say that there was going to be a Santa Claus in Japan? NO! Do I know this isn't DotA? YES! Did you read my post correctly? NO! Maybe if you look closely, you can see this:
Thanatos_820 wrote: I have 1 optional suggestion
Maybe you should read before it's posted, and check your grammar.
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
Omerta - 03.12.2006, 16:50
Thanatos_820 wrote: I have 1 optional suggestion
It wouldn't be a suggestion if it isn't optional to be used.
As for Phinix's reply - he was told to behave less aggressively (as you can see), so should you.
and did you read PhiniX post correctly?
Re: Cosmetic/Terrain Changes
grandxavatar - 17.03.2007, 06:49
I don't know about Winters, I think it's not really a bad idea after all, could give it a try, coz I see most of the Japanese and Chinese movies that I watch always has snows in it during the wars ;)
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