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Qualität des Beitrags: Beteiligte Poster: tegeus-Cromis - nooK - Kouenzan - Metal Sonic - Galefury - Forbidden - Yui - Viziroth - Anonymous - Anton - wizard.dark - Lyncor Forum: Samurai Legends Forenbeschreibung: Official forums aus dem Unterforum: Ideas Antworten: 52 Forum gestartet am: Mittwoch 06.10.2004 Sprache: englisch Link zum Originaltopic: Hero: Kunoichi Letzte Antwort: vor 17 Jahren, 2 Monaten, 16 Tagen, 19 Stunden, 32 Minuten
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Re: Hero: Kunoichi
tegeus-Cromis - 28.05.2006, 07:34Hero: Kunoichi
Kunoichi
(Suggested voiceset: Warden)
Role: Combat caster
Attack range: 100 (melee)
Starting damage: 35 - 40 (65 - 70 at level 20; 85-90 with Kitsunetsuki maxed)
Starting HP: 325 (1250 at level 20; 875 with Kitsunetsuki maxed)
Starting MP: 345 (900 at level 20; 1200 with Kitsunetsuki maxed)
Move speed: Slightly below average (significantly above average with Kitsunetsuki maxed)
Strength: 12 + 1.95 per level (49 at level 20; 34 with Kitsunetsuki maxed)
Agility: 21 + 1.89 per level (57 at level 20)
Intelligence (Primary Attribute): 23 + 1.95 per level (60 at level 20; 80 with Kitsunetsuki maxed)
Skill 1: Ill Will
Type: Active, single-target nuke
The Kunoichi blasts a single enemy with the full force of her resolve. The target is Silenced and takes a multiplier of the Kunoichi's Intelligence in damage. 600 range.
'Of hate, as of all other matters, speak little, but speak it well.'
Level 1 - 2x Intelligence in damage (minimum 90 damage), 3 second Silence.
Level 2 - 2.5x Intelligence in damage (minimum 130 damage), 4 second Silence.
Level 3 - 3x Intelligence in damage (minimum 170 damage), 5 second Silence.
Level 4 - 2.5x Intelligence in damage (minimum 210 damage), 6 second Silence.
Level 5 - 4x Intelligence in damage (minimum 250 damage), 7 second Silence.
Skill 2: Eyes of the Fox
Type: Active, single-target utility spell
Exacting a favour from a fox spirit, the Kunoichi gains vision of a target non-ally unit. Vision granted ignores terrain. Does not reveal invisible units, but will reveal the terrain around them and display them on the minimap. Lasts 180 seconds (90 seconds on heroes) at all levels.
'Through the window I see no star:
Something more near
Though deeper within darkness
Is entering the loneliness. . . .'
Level 1 - 250 vision radius, 1 target at a time max.
Level 2 - 500 vision radius, 1 target at a time max.
Level 3 - 750 vision radius, 2 targets at a time max.
Level 4 - 1000 vision radius, 2 targets at a time max.
Level 5 - 1250 vision radius, 3 targets at a time max.
Skill 3: Kitsunesuki
Type: Permanent, stats-altering passive
As her training progresses, the Kunoichi's skill in the magical arts begins to exceed mortal bounds. Her speed and magical power increase drastically, at the price of an increasingly insubstantial form.
'The cherry flowers have faded
Here in the reign of mortality
Here in the weary rain.'
Level 1 - +4 Intelligence, +3% attack and move speed, -3 Strength.
Level 2 - +8 Intelligence, +6% attack and move speed, -6 Strength.
Level 3 - +12 Intelligence, +9% attack and move speed, -9 Strength.
Level 4 - +16 Intelligence, +12% attack and move speed, -12 Strength.
Level 5 - +20 Intelligence, +15% attack and move speed, -15 Strength.
(Each level also makes her harder to see, a la the Phantom Assassin's Blur, but only when she's stationary.)
Ultimate: Severance
Type: Active, channelling summon
By entering a death-like trance, a Kunoichi who has mastered her art is able to leave her body to do battle unhindered by physical limitations. Her spirit form does not benefit from items except +stat and +movement speed items, but has Feedback, a collision size of 0, and HP equal to the Kunoichi's max mana pool. 30% of the Kunoichi's remaining mana drains away after casting. Channelling.
'A tune of non-being
Filling the void:
Spring sun
Snow whiteness
Bright clouds
Clear wind.'
Level 1 - Each attack burns 9 mana. Lasts 40 seconds.
Level 2 - Each attack burns 18 mana. Lasts 45 seconds.
Level 3 - Each attack burns 27 mana. Lasts 50 seconds.
Level 4 - Each attack burns 36 mana. Lasts 55 seconds.
Level 5 - Each attack burns 45 mana. Lasts 60 seconds.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
nooK - 28.05.2006, 16:37
WOW! Really nice descriptions and flavour :)
I like all of the abilities, but I don`t know if you have a model viewer. Because then you would see her kickass animations and I want to use some of them. So I don´t know hich abilities of your suggestion she will really have the first one should be for sure.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
tegeus-Cromis - 28.05.2006, 18:14
I have seen the animations and yeah, they are pretty cool. I don't think there'll be a problem using them, actually.
Attack Alternate, Attack Alternate 2, Attack Slam Alternate: Can be used as default animations for the Kunoichi's spirit form, which should not carry weapons.
Spell Slam: In itself it is cool, but would look kind of ridiculous in an SL context, IMHO. This is the one animation I would rather not see used. . . .
Spell: Used as the casting animation of Eyes of the Fox.
Attack Slam: I'm thinking Ill Will should use this, with the projectile launched with the downward diagonal slash. (As for the projectile itself, a cool visual to use would be the area slash of the Shinobi's Old Man's Friend, suitably recoloured and executed a single time by a Kunoichi image that is invisible except for the blade.)
How's that sound?
(BTW, maybe I'm a little biased here, but I'm of the opinion that it is better to start with a good skill and find a suitable animation for it than to start with an animation you like and find suitable skill for it. :P)
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
nooK - 28.05.2006, 18:27
Yes sounds awesome. Will be hopefully in the next version :)
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
tegeus-Cromis - 28.05.2006, 18:45
Wow, seriously? Sweet! :D
I forgot to mention that it would probably be good if a bit more of that none-too-stealthy bare skin on the Ayame model could be covered up (no problem for Metal Sonic, I'm sure).
Here are a few clarifications on the skills, too, as I realise that I did not explain some things sufficiently on the first try.
Ill Will: I did not mention this, but I think it would be appropriate for it to include a small mini-stun (no need to mention it in the spell description), just enough to prevent the Kunoichi from losing ground in the process of casting it on a fleeing enemy. This is quite significant, as she has no chasing skills at all and would certainly lose her prey if she stopped to cast otherwise. It should have a fairly long cooldown for a normal skill, by the by.
Kitsunetsuki: By 'Each level also makes her more difficult to see when not moving', I mean something that works the same as the Phantom Assassin's Blur from DotA (increasing transparency with level, until it is totally transparent at max level), except it is only in effect when stationary. The intent is to give the Kunoichi a stealth effect of some sort--it would be weird for a ninja to have no stealth ability at all--without it being too much of an advantage, as Shadowmeld would be. It would also make her slightly less obvious a target when channelling Severance.
Severance: When used, what it does is cause the Kunoichi to start channelling while creating a timed life Spirit Form Kunoichi that moves independently. If the Kunoichi moves or is otherwise interrupted, the Spirit Form will disappear. The Spirit Form should be autoselected upon spawning, if possible, and the Kunoichi automatically reselected upon expiration/interruption of the spell.
P.S. How is the No Dachi coming along? Last I heard you had not yet decided on an ult for him; I posted a few ideas here if you're interested.
P.P.S. How many more heroes do you plan to add? I understand filesize is a factor; after the ranged caster and the Kunoichi are added, will there be space for more, and how many?
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
nooK - 28.05.2006, 23:32
Quote: Wow, seriously? Sweet!
I forgot to mention that it would probably be good if a bit more of that none-too-stealthy bare skin on the Ayame model could be covered up (no problem for Metal Sonic, I'm sure).
Here are a few clarifications on the skills, too, as I realise that I did not explain some things sufficiently on the first try.
Ill Will: I did not mention this, but I think it would be appropriate for it to include a small mini-stun (no need to mention it in the spell description), just enough to prevent the Kunoichi from losing ground in the process of casting it on a fleeing enemy. This is quite significant, as she has no chasing skills at all and would certainly lose her prey if she stopped to cast otherwise. It should have a fairly long cooldown for a normal skill, by the by.
Kitsunetsuki: By 'Each level also makes her more difficult to see when not moving', I mean something that works the same as the Phantom Assassin's Blur from DotA (increasing transparency with level, until it is totally transparent at max level), except it is only in effect when stationary. The intent is to give the Kunoichi a stealth effect of some sort--it would be weird for a ninja to have no stealth ability at all--without it being too much of an advantage, as Shadowmeld would be. It would also make her slightly less obvious a target when channelling Severance.
Severance: When used, what it does is cause the Kunoichi to start channelling while creating a timed life Spirit Form Kunoichi that moves independently. If the Kunoichi moves or is otherwise interrupted, the Spirit Form will disappear. The Spirit Form should be autoselected upon spawning, if possible, and the Kunoichi automatically reselected upon expiration/interruption of the spell.
Yes seriously ;) But Ill Will needs some nerfing I think it would do 440 damage + 7 sec silence on lvl 25, thats like an ult!
Quote: P.S. How is the No Dachi coming along? Last I heard you had not yet decided on an ult for him; I posted a few ideas here if you're interested.
Sorry hadn´t time to work on him, I already checked your ideas they seem all quite good but I´m still uncertain if I use one or go for something different.
Quote: P.P.S. How many more heroes do you plan to add? I understand filesize is a factor; after the ranged caster and the Kunoichi are added, will there be space for more, and how many?
I hope to add many more heroes, filesize shouldn´t be a big problem I think I will lower skin quality for the next version.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
tegeus-Cromis - 29.05.2006, 08:44
Quote: Ill Will needs some nerfing I think it would do 440 damage + 7 sec silence on lvl 25, thats like an ult!
I am not sure if this is the case.
1) My intent is for its cooldown to be long enough that you would only be able to use it once per battle, not like a Stormbolt that you could use once while initiating, once while fighting and another time while chasing/fleeing. The mana cost would also be high.
2) By the time that high amount of damage is achieved, everyone will be sporting 2k lifebars in all likelihood, and most damage will be dealt physically; 440 damage (and that's before reduction) is about what it will need to remain relevant.
3) It has no stun or slow, so unlike Teppo or a ladder Stormbolt, you don't get to add in extra damage from free normal attacks on the target. Most nukes with a stun/slow give you two free hits when used right; that gives them a >100 'real' damage advantage over what Ill Will does.
If you don't like having such a high instant damage spell as a normal skill, though, I think the easiest solution would be to reduce the multiplier significantly, but add a minimum damage value to it. I will edit my original post to reflect that.
[Okay, I've edited it. 4x is about right, I think; that means that at level 20 (not 25 :wink: ), the skill will deal 320 damage, and with a Blade of Life and Death--only one, as stacking it seems inefficient to me--360 damage. Remember, there's still damage reduction to consider, so this is not that high! I also standardised the cast range, as 800 at max level is probably a bit too much. I did not change the duration of Silence as I think 7 seconds is reasonable; I feel that a hero skill should usually be better than the item-derived version of the skill. Note that cooldown for this new, weaker version should not be as long as I indicate above; I think the Kunoichi should be able to use it once as an opener and once as a finisher on fleeing foes.
Oh, and I added icons for the skills. I am not too happy with Eyes of the Fox, but I could not find a more appropriate icon for it, and I think this one is adequate.]
Quote: Sorry hadn´t time to work on him, I already checked your ideas they seem all quite good but I´m still uncertain if I use one or go for something different.
No problem, just wanted to make sure you'd seen it. :)
Quote: I hope to add many more heroes, filesize shouldn´t be a big problem I think I will lower skin quality for the next version.
Cool! Black_Stan (or is it his friend who did them? Can't remember) has so many more cool models, it would be a pity not to use them. 8)
-
Another thing I forgot to mention: as I do not know how much you intend to boost hero damage in the next version, I have balanced all values against the other heroes as they exist now. My intention is for the Kunoichi's attack damage to be sub-par without Kitsunetsuki, but decidedly above average with it maxed.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
Kouenzan - 29.05.2006, 10:14
sweet hero.. i really like the model w00t
lotsa synergies :) i like the 1st skill, it doesn't lose its effectiveness till late part of the game. eyes of the fox, cool. like a stalking ability :) she's great at solo-hunting. very effective with mercs! im looking forward on this hero next version :P
the ultimate, use it in the forest, hide your body there :P
hey cromis, i thought you're on an overseas something?? hahaha nice job
Quote: I hope to add many more heroes, filesize shouldn´t be a big problem I think I will lower skin quality for the next version.
oh im going to suggest lotsa heroes :P hey nook, no item list? so i can make item ideas. its hard to memorize items ingame XD (or ill list it by myself later :P)
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
tegeus-Cromis - 29.05.2006, 10:40
Hi Kouenzan, glad you like the hero. I like it too. :wink: Yeah, I was overseas, but I got back early Sunday morning.
Quote: i like the 1st skill, it doesn't lose its effectiveness till late part of the game.
Actually, in both versions of the skill, it doesn't really lose its effectiveness ever! It pretty much peaks once Kitsunetsuki is maxed (assuming you max it early, although that's risky), but it's a scaling nuke.
Quote: eyes of the fox, cool. like a stalking ability
Yes, and it's good for more than that--you can cast it on a few targets within its duration (although you will rarely, if ever, hit the target limit), and so it is a good survival/intelligence gathering skill in general. It would probably be a good idea to spam it around a bit before using the ult. :P
[Edit: I've reduced the number of targets you can have Eyes of the Fox on at any one time; I figure there's no point having a target limitation if it is so high you won't ever hit it.]
Quote: she's great at solo-hunting.
I actually don't think she is, and I hope she won't be. She has no stun and no slow, and no delivery mechanism, and she is very vulnerable to ganks. She should have good move speed, but that alone won't be sufficient for chasing. She's more of a team player--sure, she's a ninja, but who says ninjas must all be soloists?
Of course with Blade of Life and Death, Skywalker Boots and a Nine-Headed Dragon, she could become a solo-hunter, but then which hero couldn't be with those items? The idea is that this shouldn't be inherent in her abilities, or she would be imba.
Quote: hey nook, no item list? so i can make item ideas. its hard to memorize items ingame XD (or ill list it by myself later)
Do you mean to say that you're going to compile an item list? I was going to do this eventually if no one else does, but if you're going to, I'll do a hero/skill list instead. I'll probably wait till the next version, though.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
Kouenzan - 29.05.2006, 11:45
maybe i'll compile it in the weekend :lol: lotsa schoolwork here :)
oops sorry! i moved my suggestion! :P
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
tegeus-Cromis - 29.05.2006, 12:34
Sorry about that! I originally meant for this to be a thread for anyone to post their suggestion, but realised that that would egt confusing very quickly, so I renamed it.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
nooK - 29.05.2006, 14:13
Yes better make a thread for every hero suggestion.
Sorry for not providing a item list but I`m busy and also changing some of the item stats like cromis has suggested.
Quote: Another thing I forgot to mention: as I do not know how much you intend to boost hero damage in the next version, I have balanced all values against the other heroes as they exist now. My intention is for the Kunoichi's attack damage to be sub-par without Kitsunetsuki, but decidedly above average with it maxed.
Currently I made +10 base damage for every hero, so any hero who had 30 damage on LVL 1 before has now 40. Only exception is the archer (will be tuned about 5 dmg up).
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
tegeus-Cromis - 29.05.2006, 17:35
Cool. I think I will edit my original post to push the Kunoichi 5 points up (the value I gave earlier was a little too high in retrospect).
[Edit: In the end I increased it by 7, remembering that the Kunoichi desperately needs HP items too much to spend a lot on increasing damage, and so can afford to have what seems to be a big advantage over other characters in terms of innate damage without becoming imba.]
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
tegeus-Cromis - 30.05.2006, 18:14
Edited to tweak the way the ultimate works--I feel the Kunoichi would have too much spare mana, so now the ulti drains away a portion of her mana after she casts it, to make the player think a little. (For example, casting Severance might leave you too little mana to save yourself with Ill Will if your body is attacked while your Spirit Form is elsewhere.) To compensate, I upped the mana burn a bit. I think this is flavourful and makes the ultimate truly deserve its name.
Also removed the first possible icon for Kitsunetsuki, as I realised it is already in use by the Shinobi.
[Edit: Just added a clarification about Eyes of the Fox.]
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
nooK - 30.05.2006, 18:44
Uh found some problem about this hero, it sounds strange but have you seen the walk animation of her ingame? I think it looks ridiculous.. or is it just me?
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
tegeus-Cromis - 30.05.2006, 19:06
I have only seen it in WC3 Viewer 2.3c (using a perspective similar to the game default), and it looked o-kay. I think it is the swinging of the arms that throws it off a bit, as all the other heroes currently in the game hold their weapons/arms in a static position when moving. Failing editing the animation (do you know anyone who could change it?), perhaps you could make her walking animation play more slowly than usual? I tried this in the viewer and setting it at around 2/3 of the speed bar looked fine.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
nooK - 30.05.2006, 23:39
No it´s her ass, the upper part of her body is crooked and her feet and ass are inflexed this looks soo strange.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
tegeus-Cromis - 31.05.2006, 03:44
LOL, I guess. Do you know anyone who could edit the animations (Metal Sonic?), or is this too much work?
If that's not possible, I'd like to appeal for you to. . . just live with it? Everything else about the model is so cool!! :cry: Don't switch to a different one. The other female models are either inappropriate (uh, two pistols? I think not) or boring. Come on, no one will notice her ass moves in a funny way in the heat of battle. :P
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
Kouenzan - 31.05.2006, 15:03
nah no one will notice that easily (even the flying crabs in dota :P)
what viewer?? it can open mdx mdl files??
gunslinger?? she's hot!! :P
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
nooK - 31.05.2006, 17:37
You see it all the time :/ Have to make some tests, because I really want to have this hero in.
Quote: what viewer?? it can open mdx mdl files?? http://www.wc3campaigns.net/showthread.php?t=82558
Download it there you can view models and their animations with it.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
Metal Sonic - 01.06.2006, 23:18
Quote: I forgot to mention that it would probably be good if a bit more of that none-too-stealthy bare skin on the Ayame model could be covered up (no problem for Metal Sonic, I'm sure).
Quote: LOL, I guess. Do you know anyone who could edit the animations (Metal Sonic?), or is this too much work?
Modelling senses... TINGLING! :P
If you wanted me to edit the skin, sure I'll have a look at it, the walk aniamtion is looking ok to me, she's running quite fast it seems, perhaps ingame give her a slight speed bonus? :P
Hmm... Wait! Have you downlaoded the hero Kunoichi model at Wc3Sear.ch? IMO I she's a lot nicer then Ayame, I could transfer the animations to the Kunoichi model and give her Ayame's daggers too, if you wanted.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
Galefury - 06.06.2006, 19:13
Very nice hero. I find the passive a bit too extreme, though. 875 HP at level 20? Thats pretty much nothing. Maybe take 5 off the strength penalty and the int bonus.
Also, is the silence DR silence or Doom silence? Because Doom silence is pretty damn powerful. Normal silence can be dispelled, though, maybe making it too weak if a dispel item is introduced. Also I don't like the ministun on it, because it would let her break channeling. Otherwise very nice.
Change the description of the ultimate a bit, though. Leaving her body to do battle unhindered by physical limitations? Her body is standing around uselessly in a trance... Which makes the description quite weird.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
tegeus-Cromis - 06.06.2006, 19:34
Galefury: Quote: Very nice hero. I find the passive a bit too extreme, though. 875 HP at level 20? Thats pretty much nothing. Maybe take 5 off the strength penalty and the int bonus.
It's extreme by design. The whole idea is for her to be extremely weak (though damaging) in person, but to be a monster in spirit form.
Quote: Also, is the silence DR silence or Doom silence? Because Doom silence is pretty damn powerful. Normal silence can be dispelled, though, maybe making it too weak if a dispel item is introduced.
Normal silence; it isn't an ulti after all. If the enemy has the foresight to buy dispel items and the reaction speed to use them, I think he deserves to be able to counter it.
Quote: Also I don't like the ministun on it, because it would let her break channeling.
Duuuuuude. It is a silencing spell!
Quote: Change the description of the ultimate a bit, though. Leaving her body to do battle unhindered by physical limitations? Her body is standing around uselessly in a trance... Which makes the description quite weird.
I don't grok your meaning. Explain?
Metal Sonic: Quote: If you wanted me to edit the skin, sure I'll have a look at it, the walk aniamtion is looking ok to me, she's running quite fast it seems, perhaps ingame give her a slight speed bonus?
Well, she will be quite fast when she's learnt her passive.
Quote: Hmm... Wait! Have you downlaoded the hero Kunoichi model at Wc3Sear.ch? IMO I she's a lot nicer then Ayame, I could transfer the animations to the Kunoichi model and give her Ayame's daggers too, if you wanted.
This is nooK's call of course (as is everything else :P), but personally I dislike Black_Stan's Kunoichi model. It is just such a manga cliche, and the proportions are so unrealistic. :? Perhaps her walk animation could be transferred over to the Ayame model, though? That would solve nooK's problem with it.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
Galefury - 06.06.2006, 20:28
Ugh. Totally forgot about silence. *g*
And what i mean is that her body is fucking standing around uselessly, not fighting. Her spirit is fighting, not her body. -.-
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
tegeus-Cromis - 06.06.2006, 20:34
'By entering a death-like trance, a Kunoichi who has mastered her art is able to leave her body to do battle unhindered by physical limitations.'
It is the Kunoichi who is leaving her body. I thought the meaning was pretty clear.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
Metal Sonic - 06.06.2006, 21:01
Sorry, Kunoichi with Ayame's animations won't work, the anims are all funny, and impossible to edit. :P Good that you don't want that anyway thoguh, I'm using an edited version for my hero.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
tegeus-Cromis - 06.06.2006, 21:08
What about Ayame with Kunoichi's walk animation, though? Would that work?
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
Metal Sonic - 06.06.2006, 21:29
Give me 10 seconds and we'll find out. :P
...
Hmm. It doesn't seem to want to transfer over, strange. I'll keep trying thoguh, there's probably a little problem somewhere.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
tegeus-Cromis - 08.06.2006, 02:05
Any outcome on this?
I don't think I mentioned this specifically earlier, but could you try putting a bit more clothing on her? As I said earlier, having her run around on the battlefield with a bare midriff seems out of place, and not very stealthy with ther never-seen-the-sun complexion. :P Then again this is just my preference; maybe nooK likes her like this.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
Galefury - 08.06.2006, 02:21
tegeus-Cromis wrote: 'By entering a death-like trance, a Kunoichi who has mastered her art is able to leave her body to do battle unhindered by physical limitations.'
The relation of the words wasn't really clear to me. I read it as the Kunoichi leaving her body behind to let her body do battle unhindered. In retrospect that was probably a pretty stupid mistake, but you got to admit that the description makes no sense at all if read that way. ;)
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
tegeus-Cromis - 08.06.2006, 02:24
Certainly. :P I will try to rephrase it more clearly.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
Forbidden - 19.10.2006, 16:52
Just another model comment here: Any way possible to make her fingers actually grasp her weapons? The model picture looks abit weird since she doesn't even seem to be holding her weapons.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
Forbidden - 17.11.2006, 18:15
You had some issues about the models movements, right? I like the current model very much, but this is just a suggestion for a replacement model in case someone has considered replacing the model. Hoping it can help to solve disagreements about move animations etc. :
The comments say to use the ninja model (I think it's Ninja but I'm not sure. Other choices are mercenary ninja or possibly Shinobi) with 1 of these 2 skins to make it work:
1. http://www.wc3sear.ch/index.php?p=Skins&ID=4392&sid=
2. http://www.wc3sear.ch/index.php?p=Skins&ID=4491&sid=
Second choice has an icon assigned too.
Again just suggestions that I hope will help to get Kunoichi in the making. I kinda like the fans as weapons. They would be different enough from the swords 3/4 heroes are wielding atm. Although twin Wakizashis (on current model) are nice too.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
Yui - 28.01.2007, 14:48Just some ideas.
Okay, so I have some ideas for the Kunoichi. May not be great but I ran some by some of the KoNL guys. Just thoughts, but feel free to comment and such.
I like the original first skill. So leave it as is.
Poison needle: Range 500, Base 20 damage, with +10 per level, slow poison, base 2 seconds, with a +1.5 second increase per level
Evasion: Base 5%, increase 5% per level
Ult: Hook, deals 75 damage, range is 700, brings target to Kunoichi, stun for .5 seconds.
I also thought this model (I've seen it on a couple maps and I thought it was cool)
Link
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
Viziroth - 29.01.2007, 01:40
I dunno if this was mentioned or not, but isn't the silence kinda long on ill will.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
Anonymous - 29.01.2007, 09:24
Ok i LIKE! this hero but i have 2 problems.
these are:
1. teh silance is way to long even if there is a large cool down and mana cost. id they kant counter it they kant do enything for 7 secs!! exept run or slash someone. that would be insane in a hero fight, it would also be a ultmate escape skill.
2. the ulti..omg...just get the Kunoichi to sit at a fountain and you have an uber fighter for 40secs. this could be solved by the sumon not being able to go to far away from the kunoichi. also it would be nice to hav a reward for slaying the sumon or some negitive efect on the kunoichi.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
Anton - 29.01.2007, 09:26
sory the post from the gest was me :(
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
Yui - 29.01.2007, 10:49
Feed back on my ideas for the hero please?
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
Forbidden - 29.01.2007, 13:10
Welcome aboard Yui, sure I'll comment:
Ill Will: the first skill, yes? I'm mostly fine with that too. However, if you change the last 2 skills of the Kunoichi, you change this skill too. It deals damage according to your intelligence. If you change kitsunetsuki, then Ill Will changes too. Did you consider that?
Poison needle: Poison is quite a simple skill that is often hard to balance with the slows and all. I see why you would suggest a poison needle as a skill for an Assassin though. Still, another damage dealing skill might ruin the balance planned by tegeus.
Evasion: How much of the game have you played? No offense, but are you familiar that Shinobi already has an evasion skill? No clear reason to copy that skill.
Hook: As stated in another hero idea, Hook is a skill that everyone loves because of the fatso called Pudge. I'm sure it's a useful skill, but we don't want to copy every skill that seems awesome, from other games. The present ultimate makes the Kunoichi somehow different from other heroes.
You seem like the type that likes herokillers, when looking at the ideas you posted. That's not a bad thing don't get me wrong. It's just that we already have alot of herokillers in this map. Adding a hero with 3 single target nukes like you just suggested would add A LOT more herokilling power.
I mean look at your skillbuild: High damage+silence, initial damage+slow+poison, damage+pull+stun = imba damage combo. The thing is that your skillbuild is way too powerful. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just saying my opinion. And I think I speak for many others too. Again no offense. Keep at it.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
Yui - 29.01.2007, 13:18
Yeah I did actually, but I said to hell with it.
I see where youre going with the balance though
I've played it a few times through, but for this one I ran out of ideas, and I think Skirn gave me the idea for this one, blame him! >.<
So far the current Ultimate is incredibly IMBA, because as previously stated, the kunoichi stands by a fountain and pretty much wont die. Err whats pudge? I only really play SL, Boreal Conflict, and ORPG's and the like.
Actually, I prefer Yumi, who's more of a siege hero, and I am horrible with HK's. I usually play support or siege.
Forgot about the silence on the first skill. I think if that gets tossed, and the damage gets lowered a bit, then it would be a bit more balanced.
Also, a Kunoichi OUGHT to be a hero killer, seeing as a kunoichi is... hell you ought to know.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
wizard.dark - 30.01.2007, 21:56
Actualy i think i know how to balance the ultimate(the original one).
Lets say the ultimate lasts 360 seconds.When the shadow leaves the body the hero takes 200 damage (all lvls) and reduce her armor to 0.Also the spell requires hard concentration,there for, if the hero is hit it has 18,16,14,12,10% chance of loosing the cast and returning the shadow back into the body.Every time the shadow hits it burns through the amount of damage it usualy does BUT can also be hit for 1/2 the usual damage.Now if the shadow dies,the hero dies.
This will allow you to kill hero 2 ways and also allowing you to interupt the spell. But also still allows the shadow to run better then heros can chase it down since it has the collision size of 0.
Basicly it will transform the hero into a super powerfull damaging tank but leave her body worthless and easy to kill even at the fountain.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
Anton - 31.01.2007, 11:26
so your sayign you lose your aromor and some hp(200) umm thats nt quite balnced yet. you can stil sit her by eny fountain and live through most thingsand woudl it reduce your aromor to 0 or just give you a -# ? so if you had a item that gave you aromor would you have armor when useign this skill? the chance to lose the image sucks in my opinion. maby a % chance to a sertain amoint of damge to the actual kinotchi when the image gets hit.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
wizard.dark - 01.02.2007, 16:37
No if you loose your armor health and have a chance to stun ur defenatly not going to use her near fountain.You are goign to use her when you are certain ur bout to catch a hero with her thats running far from fountina to a fountain.Even if u sit her by fountain you can have any stuning,damaging hero run in there stun her/hit her and stun her/net her/tepo,dragon soul her and so on and so on with any hero with no armor even if she is by a fountain she is to fradgule to just sit there.I can personaly say i can run in there with any hero exept for yumi(maybe even yumi if i put traps on top of her)even with towers firing and own her with nukes.And its not like its to hard to figure out where exactly she is.
SO it would be balanced aaand it could own heros at right time.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
Lyncor - 02.02.2007, 00:01
What's to stop her getting the blink item, teleporting to an 'impossible location' and then using the 0 collision size ult from her safe haven?
I know it's what I'd do. Screw the fountain, go on top of a hill where they can't see you.
How can you balance against that?
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
Viziroth - 02.02.2007, 01:36
You could get a trigger so that those inacessable area will teleport you back to the map if your there.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
wizard.dark - 02.02.2007, 02:28
Or you could simply not allow the shadow to travel between lairs of ground unless theres a way up or down(like top shrines hill).Basicly if u would port onto somewhere where the samurai isnt reacheble by foot the shadow wouldnt be able to go up.O yeah i also wanted to mention that during the ulti the samurai should be visible to everyone.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
Yui - 02.02.2007, 17:56
Viziroth wrote: You could get a trigger so that those inacessable area will teleport you back to the map if your there.
That wouldn't be a good idea, because it is possible that if someone was playing Yumi, they may want to get a good vantage point or something for some good creep killing.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
Lyncor - 03.02.2007, 03:26
Viziroth wrote: You could get a trigger so that those inacessable area will teleport you back to the map if your there.
I would HATE that. The ability to jump/way of death/etc to 'impossible spots' is one of the more fun things about the map. Ever had a clifftop chase, ronin vs ronin? It's the most fun thing ever :D
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
wizard.dark - 03.02.2007, 14:55
Did everyone just ignore my sugestion?I think its rather prety good and will satisfy u all.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
Anton - 03.02.2007, 16:11
if you made her visable to every1 she would just get ganked by every1 once she used her ulti.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
wizard.dark - 09.02.2007, 19:16
Forget bout visibility for a second.If her shadow cant travel between 2 floors without a ramp it solves the whole problem of her blinking on top of something and hiding because the shadow would become usless.
Re: Hero: Kunoichi
Lyncor - 10.02.2007, 04:40
That actually works.
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