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Qualität des Beitrags: Beteiligte Poster: Pathfinder - Paul - Roy N - Jemi - Lancasterman Forum: - Aero Part Identify Board - aus dem Unterforum: Teile ohne Nummern / Parts without numbers Antworten: 27 Forum gestartet am: Donnerstag 15.02.2007 Sprache: englisch Link zum Originaltopic: Crash site photos of unknown a/c Letzte Antwort: vor 14 Jahren, 7 Monaten, 29 Tagen, 18 Stunden, 27 Minuten
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Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Pathfinder - 30.04.2007, 21:13Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Hi all,
here some photos from unknown crashed aircraft near Kiel 1941 or 1942
Maybe someone can identify the type of aircraft. On interest are the window and the small letter under the window on photo #1, and the oval part on photo #2. On the right side near the oval part is likely a oxygen cylinder to see. (on the irrecognizable area on the left lies a dead crew member)
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Paul - 30.04.2007, 21:42
Nils,
Seeing the oxygenbottles (several of them) and the shape of the window my first guess would be a B-17....But I can be wrong of course !
Paul
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Pathfinder - 30.04.2007, 22:46
Paul,
when the notice on the backside from photos is correct, then it cannot be a B-17. The first B-17 crashed on 14.05.1943 in our area.
But you are right, the window looks like from a B-17 :?
Maybe the date is not correct...
Nils
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Roy N - 01.05.2007, 00:31
gentlemen,
here is what i see in the photos
top photo in Nils first post is of the wings. pulled off when the plane crashed. judging by the soldiers uniforms i would guess that whats left of the wings are upside down and appear to be grey?
the burned wreckage is not very long, see the guys standing beyond.
i think this burned on the ground almost as one piece. we are looking from the front to rear. there is one engine on either side of the fuselage. ( numbers 1 & 2 on the picture ) they have sunk into the ground when they fell from the burning wings.. so a medium bomber with high wings
if you look at number 3, its pointing to what could be an American star. so medium bomber, American.. last, if you look at 4 & 5 you will see what looks like the remains of a twin rudder.
my guess is B26 Mitchell. the engine cowlings look about right too
do i win a prize or am i kicked off the Board??? :P
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Pathfinder - 01.05.2007, 00:59
Roy, or should i say "Mr. Copperfield" :mrgreen:
just i have make a better scan from this photo and the points of your numbers:
here the American star (you are great 8) )
here are your "engine" :shock:
here the "twin rudder" (on a B-26 ??)
I will see into my B-17 and B-24 part list for the oval parts on the last detail photo.
...and Roy: no identify a/c - no prize, and a kick for the B-26 with a twin rudder :wink:
You mean a B-25 twin engine and twin rudder a/c :D
Nils
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Roy N - 01.05.2007, 01:09
Nils
Yes i meant B25 :oops:
i was too excited 8)
there is no sight of a normal high rudder,
Roy
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Pathfinder - 01.05.2007, 01:51
Identify of one of the engine mountings and part from bombardier enclosure:
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Paul - 01.05.2007, 17:42
Doesn't look a B-25 to me judging the glasswork of the nose...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26506376@N00/466001728/
Paul
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Pathfinder - 01.05.2007, 19:10
Paul,
i have looked into my part list of B-24H and B-17G.
the problem is i don´t know what the oval parts is, i have the part not found in the part lists.
Maybe it came from a other version of this a/c ...
But i think it´s from oxygen or vacuum system of a B-24 version :cry:
Nils
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Paul - 01.05.2007, 19:56
Nils,
Still puzzling on the part you call the bombardiers enclosure...
It makes me think of a part of a first model A1 Sperry mid-upper turret...
Paul
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Paul - 01.05.2007, 21:55
Another possible type just crossed my mind....Douglas Boston, what do you think?
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Roy N - 01.05.2007, 22:06
Paul
i considered Boston before saying B25. you can normally see some sign of the rudder left after a fire. theres nothing.
B17 has about 20 oxygen tanks. i guess the 24 has about the same. i cannot see anywhere near that amount.
Nils
if this is American. (looks O/D and grey) then at least it must be no earlier than 42
Roy
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Paul - 01.05.2007, 22:33
Roy,
It could be wearing an early U.S. Star...
Paul
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Roy N - 04.05.2007, 18:36
Nils
do you have any other details for these pictures? was it taken near kiel?
its really winding me up. i`ve spent a lot of time looking at the photos (yes, i really should get a hobby !!). i still think its a Mitchell. pilots control wheel looks very similar. nothing like B17 or B24. plus the turret behind the cockpit would be right for a B25. only problems with that are, RAF never used them operationally until 43 and i dont think they went as far as kiel
i think the " waist window" looks about the same size as the entry hatch on the right rear of a B25 near the tail
Roy
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Paul - 04.05.2007, 20:56
Roy,
Where is the control wheel?
Paul
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Roy N - 04.05.2007, 21:23
Paul
1, control wheel
2, 50 cal ( i think the top of the turret ring is also visible behind the lower left of the gun. its in 2 halves )
3 looks like the remains of the crawl way under the flight deck to the nose.
4, could perhaps be whats left of the nose wheel?
picture 2 is a B25 wheel
Roy
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Paul - 04.05.2007, 21:39
Roy,
The .50 is clear to me but not sure about the other parts yet..
Picture 2?
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Roy N - 04.05.2007, 21:41
Paul
this would take 5 minutes if we were sat together over a beer!!!
Roy
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Paul - 04.05.2007, 21:41
Not tonight as I'm starting 2 nightshifts again... :(
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Roy N - 04.05.2007, 21:49
Paul
you have my sympathys :cry:
i know this cannot be a B25 unless the possible date is wrong. it just seems to me there are so many things that point to it in my eyes.
there are 2 parts i can see which i think will identify this AC. ive just got to find what they were fitted to... my search continues 8)
Roy
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Pathfinder - 05.05.2007, 22:15
Here larger photos from this a/c
Roy had seen right - it´s a .050 gun :D
oxygen bottle
electrical equipment
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Roy N - 05.05.2007, 22:24
Nils
that must be a walk about bottle. the large ribbed cylinders are the main oxygen tanks.
im sure this is a medium bomber. B17 and 24 both had large steel upright bomb racks. there is no sign of them. also the remains of the ball turret would be very visible
Roy
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Jemi - 20.08.2009, 23:57
Hello together,
Nils what do you find out about the aircraft during the last two years? Another posibility is a Douglas Boston, because I´m missing the buckles on the top engine covers..
On one of the last pictures of the front section, or that what was left from it, another cal. 0.50 machine gun is visible, in front of that what in Roys opinion is a nose wheel. I think it is not a wheel, it looks like more than a Flak helmet. The handle of the machine gun looks different from that what I know. An early model of the Browning cal 0.50?
Kind regards
Jens-Michael
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Roy N - 21.08.2009, 00:28
i had forgotten about this thread.
now i look again i agree with Jens-Michael, that looks very much like a flak helmet. i think the webbing is visible inside.
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Lancasterman - 21.08.2009, 04:36
The nose section framework looks like B24 to me?
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Jemi - 21.08.2009, 21:32
I´ve looked at the photos again and again.....
#1 Flak Helmet
#2 Cal. 0.50 Machine Gun
#3 Frame from Windshield / Cockpit Douglas A20 Boston
#4 Backside from Gauges /Cockpit?
Jens-Michael
Re: Crash site photos of unknown a/c
Paul - 27.08.2009, 13:52
So can we agree we have an A-20 here?
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet_media.asp?fsID=2969
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