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Qualität des Beitrags: Beteiligte Poster: Nalina - Strongitharm - Manah - Abderita Forum: Stardust-Foren Forenbeschreibung: Ragnarök online aus dem Unterforum: News Antworten: 10 Forum gestartet am: Samstag 31.03.2007 Sprache: englisch Link zum Originaltopic: New Infos about the new system Letzte Antwort: vor 14 Jahren, 6 Monaten, 24 Tagen, 19 Stunden, 29 Minuten
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Re: New Infos about the new system
Nalina - 13.08.2008, 19:34New Infos about the new system
Quote: Game Mechanic Changes
- Cards that influence your damage now only affect your weapon attack power.
Physical attack power becomes as follows
- Attack Power from Stats (Str, Dex, Luk, Level)
- Attack Power from Equipment
- Attack Power influencing items
- Status Attack Power, Equipment Attack Power, and adjustments combine to make total physical attack power.
Magical attack power becomes as follows
- Magic Attack Power from Stats (Int, Dex, Luk, Level)
- Magic Attack Power from Equipment
- Magic Attack influencing items
- Status Magic Attack, Equipment Magic Attack, and adjustments combine to make total magic attack power.
Physical defense becomes as follows
- Physical Defense from Stats (Vit, Agi, Str, Level)
- Physical Defense from Equipment
- Physical Defense influencing items
- Status Defense, Equipment Defense, and adjustments combine to make total physical defense.
Magical defense becomes as follows
- Magic Defense from stats (Int, Dex, Luk, Level)
- Magic Defense from equipment
- Magic Defense influencing items
- Stat MDef, Equipment MDef, and adjustments combine to make total magic defense.
Critical Attacks
- Critical attack rate is affected by the difference in level between the attacker and the target.
Evasion
- Physical evasion rate is now influenced by Luk.
Accuracy
- Physical accuracy rate is now influenced by Luk.
Hit/Dodge rate
- The ability to hit or dodge a target is affected by teh difference in level between the attacker and target.
Attack Speed
- Attack speed is influenced by Agi, Dex, and Level.
- The type of weapon equipped, your shield, and job also influence attack speed.
Casting Time
- All skill casting is now composed of both a fixed cast time and a variable cast time.
- The fixed component of the cast time cannot be reduced.
- Dex, Int, and Level reduce the variable component of cast time, as well as certain skills and equipment.
- The durration of the fixed / variable cast times vary based on skill and occupation of the caster.
Skill Balance Changes
* First Class
Swordsman
Bash
* Bash is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Magnum Break
* Magnum Break is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Acolyte
Angelus
* Angelus improves your status physical defense by an amount proportional to your VIT.
Heal
* The amount healed for has changed. Heal is now directly influenced by your magic attack power.
* The amount healed is no longer fixed, but is a range influenced by your stats and skill level.
* Modifiers that affected heal before will still work as they did.
Ruwach
* Ruwach is influenced by (status + equip) magic attack power.
Holy Light
* Holy Light is influenced by (status + equip) magic attack pwoer.
Mage
Fire Bolt
* Fire Bolt is influenced by (status + equip) magic attack power.
Fire Ball
* Fire Ball is influenced by (status + equip) magic attack power.
Cold Bolt
* Cold Bolt is influenced by (status + equip) magic attack power.
Frost Diver
* Frost Diver is influenced by (status + equip) magic attack power.
Lightning Bolt
* Lightning Bolt is is influenced by (status + equip) magic attack power.
Thunder Storm
* Thunder Storm is influenced by (status + equip) magic attack power.
Napalm Beat
* Napalm Beat is influenced by (status + equip) magic attack power.
Soul Strike
* Soul Strike is influenced by (status + equip) magic attack power.
Energy Coat
* Energy Coat now reduces both physical and magical damage.
Merchant
Mammonite
* Mammonite is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Cart Revolution
* Cart Revolution is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power and the weight of your cart.
Archer
Double Strafe
* Double Strafe is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Arrow Shower
* Arrow Shower is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Charge Arrow
* Charge Arrow is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Thief
Throw Sand
* Throw Sand is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
* Second Class
Knight
Pierce
* Pierce is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Brandish Spear
* Brandish Spear is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Spear Stab
* Spear Stab is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Spear Boomerang
* Spear Boomerang is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Bowling Bash
* Bowling Bash is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Two Hand Quicken
* Two Hand quicken now increases your attack speed by a fixed amount.
Priest
Suffragium
* Now only reduces the variable portion of skill casting time.
BS Sacrimenti
* Now allows attacks to bypass defense of demon / undead monsters.
Turn Undead
* The success rate of Turn Undead is changed.
* On failure the damage of Turn undead is a holy attack influenced by your magic attack power.
Magnus Exorcismus
* Magnus Exorcismus is influenced by (status + equip) magic attack power.
Wizard
Fire Pillar
* Fire Pillar is influenced by (status + equip) magic attack power.
Sightrasher
* Sightrasher is influenced by (status + equip) magic attack power.
Meteor Storm
* Meteor Storm is influenced by (status + equip) magic attack power.
* The damage of Meteor Storm is increased.
Jupitel Thunder
* Jupitel Thunder is influenced by (status + equip) magic attack power.
Lord Of Vermillion
* Lord of Vermillion is influenced by (status + equip) magic attack power.
* The damage of Lord of Vermillion is increased.
Water Ball
* Water Ball is influenced by (status + equip) magic attack power.
Frost Nova
* Frost Nova is influenced by (status + equip) magic attack power.
Storm Gust
* Storm Gust is influenced by (status + equip) magic attack power.
* The damage of Storm Gust is increased.
Earth Spike
* Earth Spike is influenced by (status + equip) magic attack power.
Heaven's Drive
* Heaven's Drive is influenced by (status + equip) magic attack power.
* The damage of Heaven's Drive is increased.
Blacksmith
Andrenaline Rush
* Andrenaline Rush now increases your attack speed by a fixed amount.
Assassin
Sonic Blow
* Sonic Blow is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Grimtooth
* Grimtooth is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Poison React
* Poison React's reflect damage is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Venom Splasher
* Venom Splasher is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Crusader
Shield Charge
* Shield Charge is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Shield Boomerang
* Shield Boomerang is influenced by the users status physical attack power and the weight and refine of the users equipped shield.
Holy Cross
* Holy Cross is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Grand Cross
* Grand Cross is influenced by both the physical attack power and magical attack power of the user.
* Grand Cross is reduced by a combination of physical defense power and magical defense power of the target.
Spear Quicken
* Spear Quicken now increases your attack speed by a fixed amount.
Rogue
Back Stab
* Back Stab is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Sightless Mind
* Sightless Mind is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Snatch
* Snatch is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Monk
Raging Trifecta Blow
* Raging Trifecta Blow is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Raging Quadruple Blow
* Raging Quadruple Blow is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Raging Thrust
* Raging Thrust is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Throw Spirit Spheres
* Throw Spirit Spheres is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Occult Impaction
* Occult Impaction is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power and the physical equipment DEF of the target.
Mental Strength
* Attacks ignore the users physical and magical DEF but all incoming damage is reduced by 1/10.
Guillotine Fist
* Guillotine Fist is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Alchemist
Acid Terror
* Acid Terror is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power and increased by the VIT of the target.
* Acid Terror deals 1/2 damage on boss targets now.
Bomb
* Bomb is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Bard/Dancer
Musical Strike/Slinging Arrow
* Musical Strike and Slinging Arrow are influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Impressive Rift
* Impressive Rift now increases attack speed by a fixed amount (per level).
Magic Strings
* Now only reduces the variable portion of skill casting time.
* Transcendent Jobs
Lord Knight
Frenzy
* Frenzy now increases attack speed by a fixed amount.
Clashing Spiral
* Clashing Spiral is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power and the weight of the current equipped weapon.
Traumatic Blow
* Traumatic Blow is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Vital Strike
* Vital Strike is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Assassin Cross
Soul Destroyer
* Soul Destroyer is influenced by your physical and magical attack power.
* Soul Destroyer's damage is reduced by a combination of both physical and magical defense of the target.
Meteor Assault
* Meteor Assault is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Sniper
Focus Arrow Strike
* Focus Arrow Strike is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
High Priest
Assumptio
* Assumptio has been completely changed. Assumptio now increases your physical and magical defense by 200% for the skill duration.
* However, skills that bypass your physical or magical defense will ignore the effects of assumptio.
High Wizard
Stave Crasher
* Stave Crasher is influenced by both the users physical attack power and magical attack power.
* Stave Crasher is reduced only by the targets physical defense.
Napalm Vulcan
* Napalm Vulan is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Mastersmith
High Speed Cart Ram
* High Speed Cart Ram is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power as well as the current weight of the items in your cart.
Paladin
Rapid Smiting
* Rapid Smiting is influenced by status physical attack power only and the weight and refine of the current equipped shield.
Minstrel / Gypsy
Arrow Vulcan
* Arrow Vulcan is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Champion
Raging Palm Strike
* Raging Palm Strike is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Glacier Fist
* Glacier Fist is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Chain Crush Combo
* Chain Crush Combo is influenced by (status + equip) physical attack power.
Scholar
Soul Exhale
* The amount of SP transferable with Soul Exhale has changed. Now you cannot give a target more than 50% of their max SP with the skill.
Mind Breaker
* The damage of Mind Breaker is now influenced by (status + equip) magical attack power.
Biochemist
Acid Bomb
* Acid Bomb is now influenced by the users physical attack power, the users magical attack power, and the VIT of the target.
* Acid Bomb damage is now reducable by a combination of both physical defense and magical defense of the target.
http://forums.irowiki.org/showpost.php?p=232695&postcount=1
Keep in mind, this is work in progress.
Re: New Infos about the new system
Strongitharm - 13.08.2008, 22:24
Most important thing to remember - these are test changes on a test server - they may never happen at all...
See : http://forums.irowiki.org/showthread.php?t=14155
For full discussion thread - note is all only on test server... may well not happen...
And interesting rant from Doddler (well argued so not really a rant ;) ) is at
http://rojournal.doddlercon.com/index.php?cat=3
I reckon that they are trying some major changes to see how it goes. The problem with the way RO works is that currently you get significant benefits from extreme builds, and this stacks with the fairly extreme skills most jobs have. It looks as though this is an attempt to see what happens if you reduce some of the extremities...
It will make cards better for lower level char, but still useful for high level, but will change which cards are useful and which weapons.
A lot of people (myself included) think that there may well be a considerable reduction in the hit points of many monsters.
It will make more varied builds more useful, and will probably - if implemented - come with a full stat & skill reset NPC (personally I'd also like a remove cards from weapons NPC too, as some of my hard worked for weapon will become all but useless...).
I'd be surprised if these changes happen as listed in a production server. But it makes some sense to reduce some of the extremes at the ends of character design and encourage a bit more experimentation and variety : Suddenly it will not be worth maxing almost any stat for most people and better to pick a wider variety of stats - so all the PvE people will be able to take more VIT and maybe LUK and lose a bit of AGI and STR (or DEX or INT, for Magic or Bow/Gun fighters), and each variation will be workable though with more subtle differences, rather than the 'I can level real fast but only on 1 map' builds...
This would also make it easier to keep game balance, by reducing the potential for such extreme end cases - and given that 3rd job is coming they may well have found out that the current pushing of extremes to the edges made balancing 3rd job builds impossible (or that you rapidly ended up with new content that only 3rd job people would ever see... a bit like the 'cannot go there without assumptio' problem for some maps...).
I think it can work - by reducing the almost exponential power growth at the high end of stats it will make it more possible to make an MVP (for instance) that a 3rd Job can solo, a small party of 2nd Jobs can beat, and a large party of 1st Jobs can also beat.
The other thing is that they are also bringing in the instanced dungeons, and apparently maps that have upper level limits (the new orc dungeon map for a start I think) which would allow for the making of MVP style bosses that lower levels can aspire to without them being blasted all the time by a high level guild who are there just because they can...
I think it bears a lot of watching, as it stands it reduces the damage of high STR melee chars something like 20-50% depend on weapons used (people do the actual numbers in the irowiki discussion threads), but if this is combined with a similar drop in monster hit points and the apparent change in MAtk to a more flat rate formula as well then what it means is that a Swordie can stop with a decent but not ridiculous STR and take both good VIT and AGI for instance, or that a high DEX steal dagger rogue will not level at around a quarter of the speed as a strength build (slower, but not so much slower...).
A lot of that could make things very interesting. More variety in builds etc... The big thing that should probably come in at the same time is either an increase in the XP values of monsters or a reduction in XP needed the final few levels - the huge XP growth rate towards the end made sense when 99 was the end, but now you go to 99 twice and thence to job 3 it make sense to reduce the steps slightly and give more people more chance to experience different cvharacters at high levels.
Anyone got any opinions? Although Gravity will always in the end do what _they_ want - a lot of people discussing things like this might come up with some decent ideas that maybe they might pick up on... I will probably write something to the irowiki thread in a week when I get back from holiday (and have had chance to read everything that is up there by then...).
Re: New Infos about the new system
Nalina - 14.08.2008, 18:15
My opinion so far: Rebalancing the stats is probably a good thing. Right now, the system is pretty obscure, with effects taking great leaps, hidden bonuses and even super-hidden bonuses. Dex is required for almost every char (ranged, melee, caster...), Luk ist almost useless. I can't just increase Str, I have it to raise by exactly 10 points for a noticable effect.
Bonuses get extremely good when stats get very high, rewarding (only) those players who make extreme stats and punishing those who try balanced chars.
If they fix that, somehow, great.
Skills look, so far, simplified. No longer mysterious and bizarre formulas with skills who need one kind of extreme build to use them to maximum effect.
One thing, as a crusader/paladin, always bothered me. Grand Cross. When I first saw it, reading it's description and everything, it looked really cool to me. Some kind of last-ressort skill you use when things look bad, when too many monsters swarm you. You summon the power of Odin to strike down or at least weaken your enemies, killing yourself (maybe barely survive, if Odin smiles at you this day :wink: ) in the process to save your party...you know, that kind of stuff. Because that would be awesome.
But someone noticed that GC gets little from physical damage, but a lot from magic attack.
And so the typical GC Sader was born, unable to kill anything with his sword but running around in 2-3 maps, doing nothing but GCs and being helpless without. And using GC as a Str-based Crusi/Pala sucks.
This is not awesome...
The same is true for various other skills, like Soul Destroyer.
Now, with effects of cards decreased, physical and magical attack working more similar, less extreme maximum damage and reduced overall HP, it seems to me that more skills become useful even if you don't create your character around it. Extreme builds probably can pull off extreme things, but little more...with the new stat system, they actually have to sacrifice something for it. However, balanced character might become a lot more power- and useful this way.
I hope this is Gravs intention...and I hope they pull it through.
The only thing that bugs me is that level becomes so much more important. Not sure if I like that.
Otherwise, I can only agree with Strongitharm. Let's hope MVPing becomes possible without exploiting bugs or have parties with insane equip, yet still remains challenging...
Re: New Infos about the new system
Strongitharm - 19.08.2008, 18:43
Nalina wrote: The only thing that bugs me is that level becomes so much more important. Not sure if I like that.
I feel happier about that having read some more things they are changing...
1) Levelling will be easier at the high end - the huge leaps in XP required for the top 15-20 levels will be greatly reduced. This makes sense as these changes are being brought in to make room for 3rd jobs in the game, and so they have a reason to want to make it more possible to get there for none-power gamers...
2) The XP reward for monsters will scale according to level - you will get dramatically less XP for killing monsters beneath you (they are changing the monster level values to make them more accurate to characters levels) - so there will no longer be a point in running round with a (for instance) frenzied Lord Knight and wiping entire maps in one or two hits - although you might get a drop you want, you will get zero XP...
These two things should help to keep things a bit more balanced, without higher level parties having any reason to wipe lower level monsters for quick XP as can happen on some maps. It sohuld also reduce the huge mobbing that goes in on some maps - as by the time you are powerful enough to mob the whole map of High Orcs then you will be getting greatly reduced XP from them...
I'm sure there will be ways of abusing the system somewhat, but it looks as though it should do a reasonable job of making some of the most irritating abuses no longer worthwhile.
The one worry though is that is will looking for certain cards much tougher - as you will get zero XP with a higher level char... However it also looks as though many cards will become less vital as well, so a slight tweaking of drop rate (for instance have lower level monsters drop more frequently) should keep things going ok.
Note : As 3rd job builds straight on top of 99/50 or 99/70 there will not be a load of very high novices rebirthing to keep using the lower level maps... Of course easier high end levelling and a much wider variety of builds could be combined with opening up the last 2 char slots and then a lot of people would be starting new novices...
It looks as though the game will be tweaked to both reduce the use and the need for extrmeem builds and power levelling methods. I'm sure people who want to will still find some end-points that work - but I expect that will be mostly for WoE and PvP players and will make much less difference to PvM and MVP players.
The fact that they are doing months of testing already, for something we will not see for a year or more seems good to me :)
Re: New Infos about the new system
Manah - 20.08.2008, 08:37
Strongitharm wrote: 2) The XP reward for monsters will scale according to level - you will get dramatically less XP for killing monsters beneath you (they are changing the monster level values to make them more accurate to characters levels) - so there will no longer be a point in running round with a (for instance) frenzied Lord Knight and wiping entire maps in one or two hits - although you might get a drop you want, you will get zero XP...
This is something I really hate - it makes me feel forced to kill the monsters the game wants me to kill. I like RO for the freedom you have in nearly everything (builds, equip and leveling spots). If I buy really good equip, the "reward" for the money I spent is that I can fight tougher monsters and get far more exp than with cheaper things. Something like that level 50 1st job party at High Orcs won't be possible anymore, and that is why I like playing in parties, that you can beat monsters that are way too high for you - AND get the exp for it.
Re: New Infos about the new system
Strongitharm - 20.08.2008, 21:14
From the looks of things, killing monsters tougher than you will be possible - and probably gets bonus XP, but killing monsters far beneath you is worthless, so that should if I read it right make parties like that work better as there won't be level 98 people mobbing half the map... only level 50-75 people for instance in bigger or smaller parties... (I hope it works like that too - I like the partying and clever equipment choice ways of taking on tough monsters myself...).
Re: New Infos about the new system
Abderita - 28.08.2008, 18:21
Doddler opened a new thread: Ragnarok Renewal Discussion Thread 2
http://forums.irowiki.org/showthread.php?t=15359
Re: New Infos about the new system
Nalina - 31.08.2008, 21:06
The more I learn about the new system, the more I like it.
Still not sure about some things (level sooo important...) but overall, it looks pretty good.
It's a shame that they're making the world smaller, however, you're going to see a lot more of it, instead of staying on one single map for 40+ levels and still getting "optimal" exp for it...
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/3108/maprenewalnp2.jpg
Small overview so far...
And Doddler reports some pretty interesting stuff...like specific maps that are very good for party play and others for solo people...
Or the new Exp tables. It looks like you'll be base 50 when reaching 1st job 50 and base 99 when reaching 2nd job 50...so in combination with the new, much less steep progression, maybe that means 1st jobs become important again. Right now people go through them in a few days or even hours and see them as little more that a waste of time. Which is sad.
Re: New Infos about the new system
Manah - 01.09.2008, 09:29
Stat System:
Probably a good idea, if there will be a full character reset for free. That could be a reason for quitting as I don't want to spend all my money for this (if I even have enough) or remake every single one of them.
Levels:
I still don't like this. It takes away too much freedom for me.
Worldmap:
Goodbye Einbech?
I guess it depends on how they do it. If everyone has the chance to adapt to these changes, it's ok. If there is no skill/stat reset or I have to spend x million zeny for it (even 200k per character would be too much for me....), I'm afraid I'll be too frustrated to keep playing this game.
Re: New Infos about the new system
Nalina - 01.09.2008, 14:27
Einbech is still there ;)
But I agree with you on the stat reset part. With those changes, that is pretty much a must.
Maybe with some limits (only 1/character) but not for money. Not when like 90%+ of the server population needs one.
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