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Qualität des Beitrags: Beteiligte Poster: Abderita - Manah - Blue-Eyes - Cpt. Chaos - Strongitharm - Suathiel - Holiday Forum: Stardust-Foren Forenbeschreibung: Ragnarök online aus dem Unterforum: Pan-Guildism Antworten: 44 Forum gestartet am: Samstag 31.03.2007 Sprache: englisch Link zum Originaltopic: Just some words that have to be said Letzte Antwort: vor 15 Jahren, 10 Monaten, 5 Tagen, 21 Stunden, 50 Minuten
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Re: Just some words that have to be said
Abderita - 28.05.2008, 08:05Just some words that have to be said
Dear guildmates,
more and more the atmospere is changing. Few weeks ago we all were having fun and big Partys, there were lots of cheerfullness and good vibrations. Even feeling bad personally wasn't that bad when in guild.
Meanwhile there came up some subliminal smack and now there is a point I am not willing to let it go on growing among us.
What's going on here?
We all have had more or less bad times in RL - it never led to these kind of unpleasant mood ingame or in chat. So that doesn't seem to be the point. Some are ill-humoured, some discontented, some sad and some retire. There are dissatisfaction and jealousy, envy and ignorance. I know none of us really likes it as it is atm. We have to stop that mates!
No handle with kid-gloves any more. We are adults, we all see what's going on. So let's have the balls to face it.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Manah - 28.05.2008, 09:09
I personally think got too big too quickly. It' not that I don't want our new guild members, but we simply didn't think about how to handle it.
The levels are causing the biggest problems. Some players seem to want to reach the new players' share range as soon as possible (which is understandable), but they forget that this is too close to powerleveling for some others. I don't want to have to level every day to keep up with someone who is simply too fast for me (even if may be possible now, I will fall behind sooner or later). I don't want to have to do quests to stay in share range with someone wo is leveling without me, because this is not playing together. As soon as I start to do anything just for EXP, it's not fun anymore. And when I'm looking for a party to have fun, I find that some of the players who used to join don't want to come with me because they're tired of all this trouble.
When I joined this guild, I was glad to be able to play with others without having to care about levels. But levels have become too important now, because we got new players who are considerably higher than the others. It's not their fault. It's just the general feeling that you have to do something to be able to share with them. Yes, I would like to party with them too, but not at all cost.
We made a big mistake, and that was not to talk about these problems earlier. The only way to change this situation ist that everyone tells the others about their feelings. I don't think it's too late, but it will be soon if we don't do anything now.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Abderita - 28.05.2008, 10:38
Thanks Manah.
I agree with most of your points.
There is only one thing I disagree: the problems began BEFORE our new members joined and so it has nothing to do with them joining us.
For me we there is no difference if there are high or low level new member. Stardust is a fun guild and if we get new member we will have to get them integrated. Wether by tanking low chars or by getting closer to high chars or any other way like different parties and fun in guild chat.
As I said, in my opinion it started before they joined and we should get the point were it comes from and how to change.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Blue-Eyes - 28.05.2008, 11:09
The problems began several weeks before the guildextention.
There was some kind of quarrel between Lisa, Tim and Sua. Nobody knew what was going on and the atmosphere felt tense.
Tim and Lisa began to level their married chars. Well i am pretty much against making chars the way they can be played in a party much easier. And i have enough RP in my mind, that i don't like weddings without any other reason but better leveling.
And there it began. They both lvled together, very day, every hour,... it felt like the guild was split up in 3 groups: Lisa & Tim. Me. And the rest.
Sigi and Falko always do play on a slower pace, because they go early to bed. 22/23 o'clock. Manah plays in the early evening. And Sua seems to play other chars too, for she is not always in the guild.
The me group: Well, i don't care about this party crap. I think the game's reason is to level on your own. Thats like the difficulty-switch, from easy to hard. Many people like to play with buff-bitches ... but honestly, most priests stand in my way... and the party halfs my XP/h for i can do effcient lvling without buffs. Parties with other damage dealers are nicer. The speed goes up and if one can get alive out of solo fights, he can get alive out of that too.
The guild was split up.
Suddenly, and without questioning a bunch of new guildmates joined. I don't like things like this. I will not talk to them or party with them until i know them for some weeks.
Well and as you all experienced, i have RL problems atm and i am very bad mooded. I am easyly talking about things that annoy me, when i am bad mooded. So i too produce some bad atmosphere.
Which would not mean that some people wouldnt annoy me under normal circumstances with things like "gogogo" or whatever...
Nah... got to go to uni, see you later.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Cpt. Chaos - 28.05.2008, 11:47
I have seen all your comments so far and i agree with (most) of them. It´s true that the most parties are about getting EXP and i kind of dislike that. Some people are making levels very fast, which is ok. But also i feel pressure to level my chars just to keep up.
I don´t blame anyone for that, as my guild is for everyone to have a good time. If this good time consists of making EXP, that´s fine by me.
My decision is to take it easy now and trying not to focus on EXP alone. Our Motto has come out of sight: Having fun is more important than leveling.
Don´t get me wrong, i still like to party for some EXP, but not at the cost of fun. And that´s exactly what´s going on right now.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Manah - 28.05.2008, 11:54
Abderita wrote: There is only one thing I disagree: the problems began BEFORE our new members joined and so it has nothing to do with them joining us.
I did not intend to blame our new members as they haven't done anything wrong. It's not so much the high level players themselves, but the effect on the other players's way of thinking. To be more precise: Tim told two days ago that me he wanted Kala to reach their share range. I didn't know that when I agreed to do some quests - now that I know, I feel like being forced to level. A good example for not talking enough.
Abderita wrote: For me we there is no difference if there are high or low level new member. Stardust is a fun guild and if we get new member we will have to get them integrated. Wether by tanking low chars or by getting closer to high chars or any other way like different parties and fun in guild chat.
The problem here is that just one way doesn't work for everyone. Getting closer to high chars takes forever because I don't like to level every day, tanking is something I really really hate unless it is absolutely necessary (Sua and I had already problems with this some time ago on Loki).
Different parties are fine for me, but not for solo players like Blue. And guild chat only works if everyone is on a char in the same guild. And since my main chars are not in one of our guilds, I can't always talk in guild chat.
Blue-Eyes wrote: There was some kind of quarrel between Lisa, Tim and Sua. Nobody knew what was going on and the atmosphere felt tense.
I must admit I didn't know about those problems.
Blue-Eyes wrote: And there it began. They both lvled together, very day, every hour,... it felt like the guild was split up in 3 groups: Lisa & Tim. Me. And the rest.
I don't want to say Tim and Lisa are the only ones responsible for the problems, but no matter who or what it is, it always has to do with these two chars. It's like they live in a completely different world than the rest.
Blue-Eyes wrote: Suddenly, and without questioning a bunch of new guildmates joined. I don't like things like this. I will not talk to them or party with them until i know them for some weeks.
I'm afraid I have to agree with that. The problem is the "without questioning" part. This is what I wanted to say in my first post, if we want new members, we should get to know them better, but that's hard if there are too many at the same time. Even harder if their chars can't party with ours. (That's not the only way, but I haven't heard much from them in guild chat yet :/)
EDIT:
Cpt. Chaos wrote: Don´t get me wrong, i still like to party for some EXP, but not at the cost of fun. And that´s exactly what´s going on right now.
Nothing more to say here.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Abderita - 28.05.2008, 14:07
Thank you for posting so free and sincere.
Gives me some optimistic feeling that we could be able to get it solved
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Strongitharm - 28.05.2008, 17:36
Lisa & I wanted some characters we could level when other people we not partying, and later at night when the timezones tended to mean we would be around but many other people would not be consistently.
We'd both been thinking about battlesages as interesting, We are also both agreed we wanted chars that would work well together but could also be played Solo too - neither of us wanted to be holding the other to being a 'buff-bitch' as Blue puts it.
Lisa was also interested in trying something more RPG related, with some background and story behind the characters. So we exchanged ideas and came up with the characters we now have. It reached the stage where we were not sure either of us exactly which character we wanted to play so we diced (/dice) to see who would play which job.
We have two chars that can use mostly spare equipment (or borrowed equipment) from our other chars (the only new equipment either needed was a counter dagger). The level fairly quickly together because there is good synergy between the character skills - the are definitely faster levelling together than solo.
Personally I enjoy party play- but I prefer it to be partying to go to new maps (and hence kill new monsters - the game is basically kill or be killed, just trying to play tourist on a map is not much fun unless you have an RPG or quest reason to be there... I've had great fun trying that before now getting items for quests). I find partying on a map where either my char can do nothing, or where my char would be able to solo easily anyway to both be frustrating, and would rather just chat whilst soloing to that kind of largely pointless party.
There are obvious exceptions/extensions to this - like GH chiv2 - which is OK for Arthur to solo on, but more fun in a party when rather than running from Abysmal & bloody knights all the map becomes potential prey. But that is like you might be able to solo on map but have to sit quite a lot, and with a priest or others in a party, you can now keep going longer - that is what a party is for, I feel, is to work together to do soemthing you could not do the same or even at all solo.
I disagree with Blue on the point of the game being solo levelling - personaly I feel if that were the case then we would all be as well playing separate games on our local PCs and just chatting about things... I think the higher level dungeons that need parties, or the fun of (for instance) taking a bunch of level 40 chars to kill HOs by working together and using the abilities of each char together is the gameplay at its best. But, as is obvious from getting Bruce to rebirth, I have nothing against solo play :)
I think Manah got slightly the wrong end of the stick (but I've already talked to her about this in game) - I was hoping she could go up 1 level oding a quest so we could party with her with Tam & Hai - I honestly thought Kala was close to 71, or even there already, when Hai reached 81... The simple fact is that Tam & Hai are fun to play together, we adapt different tactics to fight different monsters and have been able to go on maps together that some of our higher characters (mine & Lisa's, I mean) cannot solo on. This is fun - new places, new monsters, new challenges. But we don't want to leave other people behind. However if we can help other people levelling with us, and use our strengths to help them then that is good - but I don't want people to feel they are being leeched - I do not like that, and I fully understand other people would not either.I only intended that if Manah could go up 1 level from a quest at that time that we could party with her for some more time.
To me, levelling for the sake of levelling is pointless, but I find that I enjoy victory other more challenging monsters, and the way the games works these tend to result in levelling (which can open more avenues to explore in different monster). It is the excitement of having a time when a monster you used to run away from now becomes something you can hunt (remembering, for instance, Arthur & Flyrion first successfully taking on the Bloody Knight). I like that feeling of progress. I can come from levels, it can also come from learning to work well together in a party and achieving things together you could not do solo. To me that is a lot of what the enjoyment of the game is about.
I don't count XP per hour on a general basis (I did when Bruce was in high 90s, but only to get a rough idea of timing for rebirth), fun/hour is what couts and I'm sorry if some people have felt left out, or overtaken, that was never my intent or desire.
Finally, my apologies, especially to Lisa, as I've been really lousy at getting the RPG story side of things written down and put online, I'm afriad one side effect of depression is really rotten self-belief and I've just had trouble believing anything I write is worth anyone else reading at the moment. I'll try to rememdy that over the next week or so. We have a story behind Tam & Hai, and I also have a story behind Bruce that maybe someone might be interested in.
ps : The issue between Sua & myself (Lisa was only involved in that she arrived online at just the wrong time and felt she was somehow responsible) was mostly due to my reacting badly to something and Sua & I have talked it through. As far as I know it is thrououghly dealt with and can be dropped. I don't think it has asny bearing on anything, except perhaps to those who have occasionally, and through no fault of their own, read more into things than there is to read. Sometimes a cigar is _just_ a cigar :)
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Blue-Eyes - 28.05.2008, 17:41
Ah, no. Don't get me wrong. I don't want to say there is someone to blame in this situation. I only wanted to give an impression of what i thought about it in that time. (And think about many things)
I don't feel any lvl-pressure, but i fear the chilled-lvling in stardust ended some weeks ago. As its has been said: The reasons are mostly the new guildmates and Lisa/Tims parties.
I have the feeling levels somehow got important. In the year i was in Stardust, levels were nothing. But now everyone seems so stressed up about it. You are right with what you said Manah. :)
But.. i also have the feeling there is some kind of bad atmosphere. Could be something with this quarrel between those three. I dunno. But its not the same like before!
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Manah - 28.05.2008, 18:08
Strongitharm wrote: I think Manah got slightly the wrong end of the stick (but I've already talked to her about this in game) - I was hoping she could go up 1 level oding a quest so we could party with her with Tam & Hai
You didn't tell me what you wanted - and ingame you said level 74/75, which was a little too much at a time for me.
Strongitharm wrote: I honestly thought Kala was close to 71, or even there already, when Hai reached 81
I wanted to do Hellion for that, but there was a problem (which doesn't have anything to do with you). So I had no one else to come with me, and i certainly don't want to do it all alone.
Strongitharm wrote: I only intended that if Manah could go up 1 level from a quest at that time that we could party with her for some more time.
The problem is, one level is not enough. Whenever one of you is out of share range, I can't do anything about it unless i do quests (solo leveling doesn't really work because of my practically nonexistant equipment, and I feel bad boworring everything from others).
I never feel like I have nothing to do in big parties. It's sometimes difficult to chat with others and play a particular char at the same time - different guilds, different chats. That's why I love to have everyone in a big party - you can talk to everyone AND you get exp at the same time.
Strongitharm wrote: Finally, my apologies, especially to Lisa, as I've been really lousy at getting the RPG story side of things written down and put online, I'm afriad one side effect of depression is really rotten self-belief and I've just had trouble believing anything I write is worth anyone else reading at the moment. I'll try to rememdy that over the next week or so. We have a story behind Tam & Hai, and I also have a story behind Bruce that maybe someone might be interested in.
I'm always interested in character stories^^ And I'm trying to write a character diary myself, so I know how hard it can be. Maybe we can even try to do more RPG ingame (I remember we were talking about that before my wedding), our chars really need to get to know each other better.
(And sorry, we won't live in Izlude - we found a nice house in Juno with a room for everyone and even a piano xD)
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Strongitharm - 28.05.2008, 18:29
Manah wrote: Strongitharm wrote: I think Manah got slightly the wrong end of the stick (but I've already talked to her about this in game) - I was hoping she could go up 1 level oding a quest so we could party with her with Tam & Hai
You didn't tell me what you wanted - and ingame you said level 74/75, which was a little too much at a time for me.
Sorry, I was obviously unclear - what I meant was that if we level well together, and perhaps help you with some quests too, once you are about level 74/75 the slowdown for those chars 10 levels above becomse much bigger, so you are likely to stay in range for much longer without any worries. Also, I know from my own experience, there are a good set of quests that can be done in a few hours, that will get you from about level 70-71 to about level 73-75 without too much trouble. I was not sugesting you needed to race to those levels, I was meaning to suggest that it would be relatively easy to do however and then you should have far less worries about being left behind in a way. (Additionally is you get Kala to those levels she could also share with Bruce & Gwyn which I would like - and I think Sua would too ^^)
I'm sorry if Lisa & I have caused any 'level pressure' that was certainly not something desired. We simply have some chars who are fun to play and level quite quickly together. As I tihnk pretty much everyone will agree the fastest levelling characters are the ones you enjoy playing themost - simply because you play them a lot and so they level more each week than the chars you enjoy playing less do. An enjoyable char that also levels well in an XP/hour measure as well as a how many hours you might want to play a week, goes up levels quickly. We had no intention of causing any level pressure - indeed I offered (I didn't talk to Lisa about this as Sigi said it was not required) to pay tax with Tam & Hai so we cold continue to enjoy playing them and yet not leave people behind - they are fun to play whatever rate then XP ticks up at...
The only level pressure I've felt at all, and I don't think this is pressure from someone, but instead a slight self-imposed pressure on behalf of someone, is that I know Falko would dearly like to get someone to rebirth. He can level Hagen solo fine, but I am conscious that I am the person who probably plays the most at the moment, and yet I have no char who can really help Flyrion level...
Regarding the new members - Birdie has chars of different levels - we have already had a nice party with his stalker in Magma dungeon that my 73 FS Priest enjoyed. So I don't feel they put any pressure on.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Manah - 28.05.2008, 19:02
Strongitharm wrote: I was not sugesting you needed to race to those levels, I was meaning to suggest that it would be relatively easy to do however and then you should have far less worries about being left behind in a way.
Yes, but during the time it takes me to do these quests (this will likely be a few weeks because I don't really like questing all day), you will level up too, and as soon as every quest is done, I can't keep up anymore. I want to do quests when I feel like it, not when I need exp.
(And I won't do some quests before a certain level because they give far more exp then.)
The only way this works is that you level less, or that you get 50% Tax, but the first is unfair and the second is obviously not wanted.
As long as it's possible, I will gladly share with you - but please don't expect me to do quests when I don't really want to.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Abderita - 28.05.2008, 19:39
Just a word regarding Tax: sure we could put tax on Tam and Hai if they want that. And if both of them are feeling good with it...why not.
I just thought it might be unfair because Tim asked for 50% for Bruce allready for not to go too far away from Gwyn.
But as you said in chat Tim: sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. So if anyone wants tax we can do so without questioning. He/she will have his/her reasons for it.
It's my "giving is easier then taking"-prob as Manah said before regarding equip. But I'll have to get on well with it if it's ok for all others.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Strongitharm - 28.05.2008, 19:48
Just speaking for myself - tax is not a problem - I enjoy playing and being social.
When I suggested taxing Tam & Hai, Sigi said that Manah just wanted some chars within share range not specific chars - I have plenty of chars in share range I'm happy to level with :)
Although due to current circumstances I've been playing quite a lot I have neither means no desire to level everyone out of range... At the moment I enjoy playing Bruce - he is comfortable to play, relaxing, I know what he can and cannot do very well - so he pays tax as I do not want to leave Gwyn behind (and also, being rebirth, he still has loads of job levels to gain and tax only affects base XP ;) ).
Tam & Hai were made so Lisa & I can party together with a party that is different and interesting to play. Perhaps they are too interesting as they have levelled easily because we enjoy playing them. We normally have not played them when there are other parties going, unless they fit into the range of that party. Most of the time they have been on late at night after most of the other party people go to sleep... Though they have been fun to use in parties in Ice Caves with others, for instance.
I don't want to be leaving anyone out. Or even feeling left out.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Cpt. Chaos - 28.05.2008, 23:22
Well, the party this evening was enjoyable and fun again. That´s much better than the last days, don`t you agree?
Let`s just have lots of fun again.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Suathiel - 29.05.2008, 00:18
Abderita wrote: and some retire.
I think you mean me with this.
Let me try to explain it. Most of it will not have a cause in the guild.
Lets begin with somethin generall about me: I am like a cat who becomes a stray sometimes. I can be there in the house daily for weaks wanting to be social, being stroke, talking or just have people around. And then sometimes I go wandering, dont like any contact, need too be alone -and sometimes it means ABSOLUTE alone sometimes it means all alone but the closest friends.
I think you can see this different sides of me in the two kind of chars I like most in RO: Priest -an absolute party char, even i am paying my other side tribute by not making Gwyn a FS.
And then Thiefclass, especially Rogue but Sin is nice too and if I ever make a Permfirstjob it would be a Thief. Chars who dont need a party, who rarely find one. Chars who like bffs and heal like everychar but dont need them.
My first strayperiode was around easter -just two or three days nobody noticed and everything was fine.
Then my best friend fell ill ...in a way it made me very worried and have more important things then games in mind -I told you about it.
I think this time made me kind of tired, so I stayed retired a little after this. I felt not like supporting, playing someone more easy, more relaxed like Cat was the best thing then. But something very sad for me happened in the time between -the first thing someone from our guilds became involved-it was Gonzo and Jj which where forming a fix party, a close bound something like it, ran away from Cat (but maybe I was the only one feeling this way). Leveled away, at first we bitched Cat up for being in share again, but one day after it became void again. Too be honest I am also a proud proud and dont like running behind someone who is not fealing about it as a team I did. So I dont want to have Cat in this party anymore, I fear I might not want it ever again.
The other thing at Hill Wind was close too it again, we talked it over and I dont think there is much too talk about left. Only this one important thing: it was still at a point I was half at straymode, returning too homemode but afterwards I fell back too stray and I am still in it.
I did not realize some points until some days ago, when I had a long talk with Blue.
I am quite angry about the Tam and Hai thing. This is about the lowest thing you can do in RO marry because of partycombination and then ask for a child making this party even more effectiv. I will NEVER make a char for it. Play your convenience marriage party as much you like it. Have fun if it is fun for you, but do not involve me. And the bitchSorchaup thing ist ugly too. "I want my superbaby, go lets bitch my char up" UGLY UGLY UGLY
I HATE it. I really do.
Just leave me alone with my Sin some more time. I need too get relaxed again. I need to be alone. Skype will stay turned of for some more days, maybe a week, maybe longer. And please dont talk too my Chars IG if you see them. Thank you.
edit: bad english made better a little ...
And I am aware it is some hard words in it, but I dont see sense in it to add pillowes ...it would only be lies ..I lied myself long enough with not being angry, not being sad.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Manah - 29.05.2008, 09:58
Gwyneira Cinnia wrote: But something very sad for me happened in the time between -the first thing someone from our guilds became involved-it was Gonzo and Jj which where forming a fix party, a close bound something like it, ran away from Cat (but maybe I was the only one feeling this way). Leveled away, at first we bitched Cat up for being in share again, but one day after it became void again. Too be honest I am also a proud proud and dont like running behind someone who is not fealing about it as a team I did.
Thank you, this is exactly what I wanted to say about Kala's situation. Either I level with Tam & Hai together, and I mean together, or I look for someone else.
Gwyneira Cinnia wrote: I am quite angry about the Tam and Hai thing. This is about the lowest thing you can do in RO marry because of partycombination and then ask for a child making this party even more effectiv. I will NEVER make a char for it.
I must admit I'm annoyed now. You can play your chars the way you want, I don't have a problem with that. But as I heard, you want a battlepriest child for Magni. So you don't want a child for the child itself (and the player behind it), just as a buffslave? I get this impression because there was this idea of making your child on the guild account for everyone to play. Just because you need Magni so badly? If you don't care for EXP, why does it have to be a battlepriest child, not caring about who plays it? What you do with Tam & Hai ist your business, they're your chars, but this is just sad.
Probably I'm totally wrong (at least I hope so), but you need some pretty good reasons to convince me.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Abderita - 29.05.2008, 10:13
Dear guildmates
thanks again for posting . I read your words some times now and I found some pointing on me. So I thought (and felt) about them and want to tell you my actual status.
I didn't realise that you people really love that guild and feel so much part of it. Deep inside I thought Falko and me were the only ones being so deep involved. Let me give a short explanation so you might understand why.
I met Falko the first day I began to play RO when he was member of his RL-cousins guild. I joined there because of him and we both loved our RPG a lot. Well, the others didn't and the leader asked us to stop it because they got weird. The quarrel escalated and I left guild but didn't want Falko leaving because it's an RL-relation.
But next day he had opened Stardust and we put all our chars in it. We went together a long time, made some friends that joined but then left again (RO-quitt, guild-hoppers, Woe-decision, also quarrels). The only thing that constantly stayed was Falko, me and our love for our little chars. So Blue was right saying there is a group Falko + Sigi but I hope you can understand why.
I was surprised when Blue told us recently that he likes being Stardust member and he still feels well with us. Same I felt when I noticed Manah's determination to do what she can to keep that guild alive and lead it back to togetherness. Not to forget that our new members joined because Tim and Lisa (who have Popotan chars) must have told them that Stardust is worth to join.
I realised that you feel not only member - seems you are Stardust. Thanks for that.
My being wrong also showed in the point that we didn't ask you when we invited these new members. I must say that I did not think much about it (how it came Falko and/or Tim must tell you, I don’t really know). Falko called me to Pron and was standing there with some people of Popotan. He told me that they are willing to have an Ally with Stardust and would like to join us with 3 chars (=people). There also was the idea that Falko and me put 1 Char ea to Popotan. The Popotans I met till then seemed to be nice and so agreed to have them invited. I was playing Aeris these days to get her Job 50 (sometimes I give me little goal to reach for having a success experience). It's easy talking when in TF and so I got in contact a bit with Looms and Birdie. We also had a little share with them.
But as I said to Falko before: I like to get new members but I don't want to loose the "old" ones.
While trying to integrate our new members a bit I noticed the atmosphere became more and more intolerably and that was why I opened this thread to make us talk together. Some may have noticed that I refused to talk about it ingame or in skype. I ask you to tell here whatever you want to say on that so we all will know it directly from you.
Another point is levels/levelling.
I am one of those having chars from >9 to 90+ so share is not a problem for me and that's why I ignored a bit how big it is for others. I appologize for that.
If I tried to help pushing someone's levels it was because I thought that he/she wants it (good example is Falko getting a rebirth and Manah wanting to stay in share range) and now I know it was wrong and caused stress so I will stop it and go back to levelling for fun and little success making me (and seems others also) feel even better.
Little things summon to a prob.
It seems to be ridiculous because it isn't really worth to talk about (and so it wasn't) but when there are many of these little moments there grows something that makes atmosphere become bad. I just wanna give an example here for all the other little bugs: the "tongue"-emo.
Personally I don't like that emo because I feel it as something teasing, annoying, whatever else but all times kind of negative. I see others using it all the time and yesterday I asked Merinna about it and he told me he uses it when he feels happy, to him it is same like : ) or :3 (where I have to say that I interpretated :3 as kind of "hmpf" yet). So this leeds to little but permanent misunderstanding and leeds to negative calculation at the end.
For the moment Ii will finish here, though there is some more to say. Thanks for posting also to Gwyn. I have to read that some more times because I haven't "digested" your post yet.
We are different people and we have different reasons how and why we play. As Falko said:
"I don´t blame anyone for that, as my guild is for everyone to have a good time".
I hope we can continue here to talk about the things that caused the bad atmosphere and go on playing and chatting together ingame.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Manah - 29.05.2008, 11:51
Abderita wrote: If I tried to help pushing someone's levels it was because I thought that he/she wants it (good example is Falko getting a rebirth and Manah wanting to stay in share range) and now I know it was wrong and caused stress so I will stop it and go back to levelling for fun and little success making me (and seems others also) feel even better.
It wasn't wrong at all, since solo leveling effectively is nearly impossible for me and I'm always glad to get some exp from a party (Kala has somehow become a pure party char, since our parties were so much fun I don't really enjoy leveling her on my own anymore^^)
(*leaves space for the tongue-emo thing and sometheng else that is really important because no time to write now*)
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Strongitharm - 29.05.2008, 12:10
A few little response, agreements, clarifications etc...
Firstly: :p
I'd talk ed with Blue about that - to me it is a happy sign, a sign of something your say that is knowingly a bit crazy, that is 'over-the-top' or just plain mad, but with a jokey or humourous intent. To him it means you are saying something in order to mock others, so anything over the top is being done to put other down. This resulted in serious misunderstanding. I should probably try not to use it anymore.
Secondly: Popotan people
On my part I didn't say anything to Looms or others. I think Looms might have asked me at some point and I told him to chat, but I hardly ever saw Medi online for months, and I believe he was the one who initiated more formal talks. I know that Hexy - Sigi knows her Assassin Breezy a little - and I talked a lo aobut all kinds of things, and she had left Popotan with her main levelling char for a more active guild, so she may well have passed on to Popotan that I was happy with Stardust family of guilds, as her new guild was German language and many Popotan was always international (well originally Dutch I believe).
Third: Battlepriest Baby
If I'd wanted to suggest a buff-bitch-baby I'd never suggest a battlepriest... FS or FS/TU hybrid all the way for that... I didn't. What I thought was fun was a family all of whom looked like caster types but all of whom fought in melee (I'm sure I talked to some of you about that idea and that it might be fun in the way it would confuse some other players :) ) - it would also mean that those who buffed would reinforce each other's buffs so the family would help each other much more - no-one would be just a buff-bitch (the 'buff' that Hai can provide Tam is replenishing her SP when needed - due to the way Kaahi works this is actually rather more important that it might seem at first glance).
Battlepriest was suggestion as a potentially interesting to play char (if only for being rare and ifferent) that wold also make the family stronger together and be able to be a useful part of the family parties on dangerous map at some point. If no-one wants to play then will not happen. I have spare slots, I could make a buff-bitch-baby today - but I do not want to, such a thing is just not in the spirit of the game to my way of thinking, and I am rather upset to be accused of such.
Fourth : Sua & Lisa
Sua - please when you feel like talking talk privately with Lisa. She feels as though you are attacking her very personally and that you genuinely have some hatred towards her. I like both of you and do not want to be caught in the middle of this.She told me she wanted Sorcha to be a strong baby so her strong parents would be proud of her. Given that levelling a caster SN to 45/10 is somewhat tedious I have no problems with helping her that far - isn't helping a child learn and grow what parents are supposed to do?
On my part, sorry for leaving Cat behind, we were just enjoying Jj & Gonzo a lot, and you were busy a lot and mutual timing was bad... Lisa and I now (for better or worse) have our default levelling two player party, so we will not run away with other chars again - we don't deliberately run away, it is just when we are both playing together int he middle of the night we will gain levels simply from time spent playing.
Lisa - please write something on this thread. I don't want to have to try to be a conduit between people who really should be expressing themselves. Sua has managed to open herself up rather, so please can you do the same.
Both of you : Please don't make me stop enjoying playing Bruce. I care about you being happy though more than I care about a character in a game. If I thought that Bruce was problem to that, then deleting a character is better than making my friend unhappy.(I realise that might be a bit harsh, but it is how I feel, it is not meant as blackmail to make you feel guilty of anything, it is just how I feel right at this moment - and this thread is for expressing those feelings).
Fifthly: Everyone...
Let's keep having parties. Let's keep having fun. We are all bigger than these silly arguments, mostly over differing opinions on the philosophy of the game, and over misinterpreting someone doing something differently to what we would do as meaning far more than it might actually mean.
Friendships are more important than characters. Fun is more important than levels. We all have different things we have fun with, but we have enough in common too I hope.
Finally: Thanks
Thanks to Sigi for being the Guild Mother once more.
Thanks to Falko for being calm in the background.
Thanks to Manah for putting up with my occasional communications dispite misunderstandings etc...
Thanks to Lisa & Sua : For Parties and roleplaying and many memorable times - with more to come i hope.
Thanks to Blue : For some wild (in a good way!) arguments about everything from films & anime to the philosophy of gaming.
Thanks to everyone else for putting up with this torrent of stuff from me.
*group-hug*
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Suathiel - 29.05.2008, 15:52
Tim, you said you need Magni and ask me to make a baby priest for you two ...I am sorry but I understand it as "the Magni is most important" And I wont play a char for this. Even if I had the slot left for it ....what I dont have. Plus I have played battle priest, it was no fun and in this combination it would be kind of senseless, she would not have much to do but buffing...
And sorry leeching is not helping ...slaving, tanking is help. But leech up? Leech up is just sad...
And I dont feel like talking at all. Just leave me alone. Every try too force me too talk will leed too further unwill too have any contact at all. (Well maybe it would do good and I might go fully bach too Loki -.-)
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Abderita - 29.05.2008, 16:26
@ Sua:
You asked us not to talk you ingame or in skype and I sure will accept your wish. Take your time and if you wanna come closer some day feel free to do so. I often prefer to stay alone also so that doesn't cause any problem to me.
I am glad that you talk to us here because you are part of us and there are some things that wouldn't be said if u don't tell them.
@ all:
Reading all this here gives me a sense how deep inside some incidents caught you and I just want to ask you not to jumpt to conclusions to hasty. Please don't think of deleting chars, quitting guild or server. There is no need to do things like that immediately. If you think about it you can keep it in mind and if it is definitely a thing that would solve a problem you can do whatever you decided later.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Manah - 29.05.2008, 16:30
Finally finished my posts and you have already written something else....
First, the emoticon issue:
Emoticons can cause big problems, I have experienced that myself (about xD). This might be the wrong place to discuss our "personal" understanding and meaning of emoticons (maybe we could make a thread for this so we can avoid misunderstandings from now on), but I would like to say something about the "difficult" emoticons you mentioned:
/tongue
As you said, this is a "teasing" emoticon for me as well, but not in a bad way. It's more like an extension of "teasing" sentences I normally use to comment certain things or situations, but I rarely do it in normal chat and only when talking to people who know what I mean.
In RPG though, it’s more likely that I use /tongue as most of my chars tend to tease others if they said or did something funny (Wilde does it constantly because she’s a rogue and doesn’t care much about being nice, Kala does it sometimes, but mostly as a response to being teased herself (but she enjoys it), and even Manah does it, though only with close friends/family).
:3
This one is difficult, perhaps I’m the only one who thinks about it this way. It expresses a special kind of self-content for me, much like a visual expression of "muahaha" meaning "I own you all" in a friendly way...if anyone understands what I mean.
: D
Definitely happiness, though in some cases I use it as a more "innocent" version of :3 (mostly Wilde). There is also a specific meaning for Kala who uses it when she is really convinced of something.
And talking about misunderstanding in chats: There is a difference between normal chat and RPG, and I take this difference very serious. An argument in RPG never means I have problems with that person. My chars have a life of their own, so they can be sad and depressed even if I’m happy in RL.
An example: If anyone of you meets Chestra ingame and tries to talk to her (in RPG), she will likely ignore you or even get angry. I love RPG so much that it might seem too real, but don’t let it affect the relationship between players. My number one rule is that nothing that happens in RPG is to be taken personally.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Manah - 29.05.2008, 16:31
And now the more important post:
After some of you talked so much about themselves and not only about the guild problems, I feel I have to explain a bit about me and my determination as well:
Some things I said might sound like xxxx. But you should know this is typical for me if I feel that something important to me is going to be destroyed. The more important it is, the more I’m determined to get the other side to work it out together (even to the point of being annoying, Sua should know what I mean). And sometimes I’m too harsh if I feel this is the only way.
(To Tim: I hope this explains my post about the battlepriest baby. It was one of the things that seemed to annoy Sua the most, and I wanted you to think about the impression on both of us. If it was too much, I apologize for what I said – I know I make this mistake far too easily.)
I need to talk about problems or else I’m getting more and more frustrated until I decide to end it to keep myself from breaking. To tell the truth: Not wanting to talk about problems destroyed my family and I’d rather have no father at all than a father who cares less for me than most strangers do.
A friendship is a friendship, not matter if it’s RL or ingame, and guild members are usually the best ingame friends I have. They are my reason for playing this game, so the more I can do together with them, the more fun I have. I’m originally a Loki player, but after losing four guilds and three very close friends I was all alone there. The only thing that kept me from quitting was a talk I had with Sua and Koptur after an event ad a Kala & Lythande share party that turned into something really big and became the starting point for my main RPG story.
So basically I have two reasons for staying here: my two guilds and my char’s stories. Unfortunately the other guild has problems as well because of members that rather disappeared instead of talking. (We’re currently trying to save what can be saved, and I’m optimistic about that.)
Stardust is a little more difficult because it affects every important char I have. Mostly because of Sua, who is too connected to the background story (she has the most and deepest understanding of it because she has been a part of it right from the beginning), and now Sigi and Falko have joined (and I’m thinking about how to involve the others too if they want). So it would be nearly impossible for me to keep this story going and my chars would lose their identity (Note: My chars are very important to me because their stories make them more than just a bunch of skills and stats. That’s why I even have problems deleting the inactive ones.) And if I had nobody to play with and not even a reason for playing, I would not play anymore.
Ever since the Hugel update I have been thinking about quitting every few months. Each time I found a good reason for not giving up. The last times it was Sua and our story, events, my ingame husband. This time it will be you and this guild. This is why I’m so determined to save Stardust – I simply can’t take losing good friends again.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Holiday - 29.05.2008, 18:11
After I read all the posts, I agree with Manah "A friendship is a friendship, not matter if it’s RL or ingame" and I do care about all of my ingame friends because we chat and play with each other even more that RL friends.
I don't want to argue with anything here, because everyone has his/her own way of playing. We cannot force anyone to do anything that they don't want to. I only want to tell my feelings and let all of you know that I joined this guild is for fun and not for fast leveling and not to create any problem. I don't care that much about experience, from the day i joined guild till now I am still care fun more than experience. If I prefer fast leveling, to be honest, I can go join big Internaltional guild and I will have lots of support and help there. But that is not what I want.
Popotan is the 1st real guild I joined and I am happy with all people there. I met Tim in Popotan and because the members there were not so active lately so I asked Tim if I can join Stardust. I have no idea about RPG until I heard about it from Sigi and she told me a bit about how to do with PRG. I have interest to try but I am still making mistake and get confussed sometimes with the ( ).
Regarding the new chars Tam and Hai, I think Tim already explained well why and how we made these two chars. We usually go level these 2 chars only when there is no share party or when all of the others went to bed. They are not living in different world. They are social and also would like to party with all of their friends. They got their own family skills but it doesnt mean that they need to stay alone. Like what Tim said, the battlepriest is only the idea that will make the family stronger and at least have one more player that can join party together with the family skills. We only want to be more fun. As these two we made for RPG, they got story background, we need to run according to the story. If not then why we need to think about story and why we need to role play them ? But, as what Tim told to others, we planned to have party with others who has BS, so Tam put also the BS link, so that we can go with big party. Please think about that, if we want only to party alone, we shouldnt need to have those planning.
Sorcha is UGLY, omg, this really made me feel sad. I asked Sua long time ago if Bruce and Gwy can adopt my babychar if I made one because superbaby is so cute. I have no idea what was happening, if Sua think that leech a baby is UGLY, I am sorry. Like what Tim said, they are family but Bruce didn't leech Sorcha till base 45. I DID PLAY ALONE MYSELF TO GET THE BASE DONE after you all went to bed. I only want to have her done and have superbaby so that Sorcha can go hunting. Sua, you could tell us if you dislike for such kind of leeching. We can never read other's mind.
Please be fair to Tim, he did most of the things are for guild. He concerns about all his ingame friends. He always try to help us. Bruce keep the 50% tax just because he wants to keep Bruce and Gwy in share party. Bruce is his main char and he can do like that because he cares about his friends. Like what he said, he cares about his friend's feeling more than his chars.
But Tim, I really don't want Bruce to lose his interest of playing. This is your main char and you did a lot of effort to get him rebirth, please stop thinking anything about deleting, that will make your friends unhappy more if you do that.
If I did something to make Sua misunderstood me, I am sorry Sua.
I think I have not much to say, I enjoy the parties and chats in game with all of you and I wish our cheerful parties and nice chats will be back again.
Thanks for all of you.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Strongitharm - 29.05.2008, 19:56
Re: Deleting chars & RPG...
I'm not seriously thinking about deleting any char. I was using that to make a point that none of my chars are more important than real life people (I'm not accusing anyone else of thinking that either) it was just to make a point.
In fact all the chars I've played and got on with that I have deleted I have got some kind of story as to what they do now - they retired to do something in the RO world. There are some chars I've tried and just not got on with the playing style of the job, and not really developed a character for, some of those have been simply deleted to make room for others.
Now, RPG... I've been playing RPGs more or less every month for 30 years now. I've played with lots of people of many different styles - with lots of different approaches to characters. Personally I tend to develop some characterisation to go with a character as I play that character - some things are easy : called a Priest 'Gonzo The Friendly' and you are either playing a miserable joke on everyone or your are making a friendly supportive priest char. Some of my characters have some real background, other I've developed as I've played. I don't really like developing massive background in isolation - I've done enough of that over the years or role-playing I've done and it no longer has real interest to me...
In real life the one thing that probably gives me most happiness and satisfaction is solving problems and helping people... this might explain why I play so many aco based characters and even my swordie has heal... If I sometimes try too hard to solve an apparent problem that might not even be there, please accept I'm not being malicious or bossy or greedy for something (well not intentionally) - it is how I am...
Lisa has asked me about an introduction to RPGing and so an easy way to introduce the idea of having some character background and story was to have two people forced to run away from home for various reasons, amongst them wanting to get married - that is a classic archetypal story. We gave them reasons for not being able to go home - which they could one day overcome - and reasons for wanting to get stronger together (otherwise most sane people would become shop keepers and not get eating by monsters several times a day to respawn in a nearby town :) ) - people who have played pen & parper RPGs, especially who have GMed them will understand my desire to have a reason for them to be adventuring heroes... I was hoping to write that up as we levelled. But my personal problems have got in the way of that. It does not alter the fact that we had background and story as well as a rough plan for skills and abilities...
In the case of Bruce I had a simple background for the character mostly to explain why he was a bit of a loner (he was, as a monk, designed very much to be my solo char for levelling and times when I wanted to be alone of there was no party - I already knew I liked playing monks from Orpheus so I adjusted the character plan I'd had for him to make a new plan based around my experiences of what I liked and what skills I used. As I played Bruce he developed some character as well. I find that things like particular likes and dislikes are more fun, for me, if I develop them during play based on experiences - as I played Bruce became far more altruistic and at times even almost heroic as the character gained some confidence in ability to do things... I had long decided that I would not likely marry any of my characters in the game - but as Sua will attest roleplaying between Gwyn & Bruce led to unexpected results from all sides... As I looked at the skill options for Champion I realised that Bruce was no longer such a loner - he now wanted to be able to work better with others and to be auseful member of a party - so rather than my original plans of staying totally combo based, I branched his champion skills out into blade stop, asura etc... which can be off use for roles in a party more than just as solo adventuring skills.
I'm rambling on here now... but really I just want to say that play styles and RPG styles cover a very wide range of things. I don't think any is more valid than any other. This is just the style I've developed personally over probably far too many years. We have had misunderstanding about things that have been worded badlty, or that have been meant to sound one way but taken another. I don't think we've had any fundamental differences - I certainly do not feel anything is broken, just that we have bent some things a bit by (to use an Ikea analogy) putting the wrong tabs in the wrong holes on some occasions as we try to build our edifice of fun. (And even if we end up building a tower that leans, that seemed to work fine for Piza - straight up is boring we are having fun, not doing engineering :D )
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Cpt. Chaos - 29.05.2008, 22:57
Well spoken, Tim. The part where you referred to roleplaying gets my full support, escpecially the part about being GM.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Suathiel - 30.05.2008, 14:22
Fililla wrote: Sorcha is UGLY, omg, this really made me feel sad.
Not Sorcha, the bitch up is ugly.
Fililla wrote: Like what Tim said, they are family but Bruce didn't leech Sorcha till base 45. I DID PLAY ALONE MYSELF TO GET THE BASE DONE after you all went to bed.
Hmm ok sorry I did not get this.
Fililla wrote: I only want to have her done and have superbaby so that Sorcha can go hunting. Sua, you could tell us if you Sua, you could tell us if you dislike for such kind of leeching. We can never read other's mind.
[quote="Fililla"] No I could not ...this pleaing and rush then made me unable... plus I am too nice sometimes.
I think I wont write here anymore and I fear the time i will want to be alone will be counted in weeks ...no idea how long but I need to go really astray now. So Skype will keep tuned off and please dont whisper my Chars. You may PM or e mail me (if I gave you the adress before) or say hi if we meet ingame ...but please dont expect me in the mood of long answers (if I even can manage one ...might be long times not, so dont be too angry) Arigatou.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Abderita - 30.05.2008, 15:22
Gwyneira Cinnia wrote:
I think I wont write here anymore and I fear the time i will want to be alone will be counted in weeks ...no idea how long but I need to go really astray now. So Skype will keep tuned off and please dont whisper my Chars. You may PM or e mail me (if I gave you the adress before) or say hi if we meet ingame ...but please dont expect me in the mood of long answers (if I even can manage one ...might be long times not, so dont be too angry) Arigatou.
Thanks for leaving us that clear wish so we know why you will not show up or talk for a time.
Sure I will great you ingame when we happen to meet and if you want to talk to me you know how whispering works. I will not force you talking to me if you don't like to because asking without getting an answer would make me feel bad.
If there is something I really like you to know I will send you a PM in the hope you will read here time by time even if not posting atm.
Take good care of yourself and what ever you will do, I hope it will make you feel good.
Sorry but this one really MUST be: :knuffel
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Strongitharm - 31.05.2008, 00:59
Thanks Sua for writing again.
Take the time you need. We have all been here for a long time so are not going to vanish. on you. Glad to know you don't plan to vanish on us.
If I email then just read and reply when you want.
Look after yourself.
*hugs*
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Strongitharm - 09.06.2008, 12:13
Sorry.
I've come to realise that I no longer care if Blue is being intentionally (and sometimes subtly) abusive in skype and guild chats, or is really just stubbornly contrary or stupid. I'm sick of trying to defend him to others whilst I he insists I defend my own actions to him.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Manah - 09.06.2008, 15:05
Then don't defend him, he is old enough to do that himself.
You can do whatever you want, he can do whatever he wants, there's no need to defend anyone or anything.
I can't say more since I can't use skype and Kala is not in the guild, but please don't make problems bigger than they have to be. Everyone here should be old enough to talk about problems. (If it's really such a big problem, please ignore this part.)
(I'm starting to feel left out again because I don't seem to know about anything that doesn't concern me directly....)
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Strongitharm - 09.06.2008, 15:46
Manah - please don't feel left out... this does not concern you directly at all.
I've spent last 3 hours talking to Blue also in skype, privately.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Abderita - 09.06.2008, 16:04
Manah wrote: Then don't defend him, he is old enough to do that himself.
You can do whatever you want, he can do whatever he wants, there's no need to defend anyone or anything.
that's exactly what I wanted to write Manah, thanks
Manah wrote: I can't say more since I can't use skype and Kala is not in the guild, but please don't make problems bigger than they have to be. Everyone here should be old enough to talk about problems. (If it's really such a big problem, please ignore this part.)
(I'm starting to feel left out again because I don't seem to know about anything that doesn't concern me directly....)
There are no big problems as far as I know, there are only some smaller probs that become bigger because of different reasons.
We are no Kindergarten!
Guildmates (and other people) are no shoe scrapers!
You got problems? Sure! We all got our back loaded. But that is NO reason to be nasty.
You feel bad? Everyone does from time to time. That's no reason to make others feel bad too!!! Isn't it more usefull to get better from them?
You think someone doesn't like you? Then TALK to this one. I know you all more or less and there is NOONE between us who wouldn't be able to answer to you if you asked if your impression was right.
You are jealous, lacking of self-confidence, angry bout RL, ill, feeling week, sad,........hey, that's life!
We have nothing but words and emos here in that game and chats. Sure that doesnt allways bring out what exactly you ment. We dont see each others face, we dont hear each others voices.
So if someone wrote something that makes you feel uncomfortable -
-first think sincerely why YOU feel hit from these words
-then you can ask this person if he/she really MENT to say what YOU understood
-and then, if he/she really ment to make you feel bad, then you can talk about it together and find out what happened
But if we all pour out our hearts to others (if involved or not) there will grow up more and more this subliminal anger and bad mood.
I know it isn't easy, but honest mates: it isn't THAT hard to talk to each other.
Stop psycho-games and kindishness please. We can have such much fun and really no need for the ugly parts that show up atm.
So far my bitter drops in mutilated english.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Abderita - 09.06.2008, 16:07
Strongitharm wrote: Manah - please don't feel left out... this does not concern you directly at all.
I've spent last 3 hours talking to Blue also in skype, privately.
Sure it concerns her directly. Didn't you read about her fears that another guild breaks? Isn't she involved when guildmates leave? Doesn't she have to cope with all this bad mood around her?
Please Tim. ALL wee say and do atm concerns to all of us directly. We are not such a big guild that people join for her name and can stand even alone in it. WE ALL are Stardust - every single one of us!
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Suathiel - 09.06.2008, 17:01
Manah, dont fell left out because you dont use Skype ...they talked in a one-to-one chat ...so you could not ead it even when you were there ^^
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Manah - 09.06.2008, 18:37
Gwyneira Cinnia wrote: Manah, dont fell left out because you dont use Skype ...they talked in a one-to-one chat ...so you could not ead it even when you were there ^^
It's just Skype in general, it's nobody's fault. I might be a bit too sensitive about that since the Kiel Hyre quest on Loki (everyone promised to not only talk in teamspeak because I couldn't use it, and in the end the forgot to tell me even the most important things. I probably won't do bigger quests anymore with people I don't know REALLY well.)
Tim, you posted it here, so I thought you wanted to tell everyone, so it feels a little strange when you say it doesn't concern me.
Abderita wrote: Strongitharm wrote: Manah - please don't feel left out... this does not concern you directly at all.
I've spent last 3 hours talking to Blue also in skype, privately.
Sure it concerns her directly. Didn't you read about her fears that another guild breaks? Isn't she involved when guildmates leave? Doesn't she have to cope with all this bad mood around her?
My other chaos guild is dead now. We had a meeting some time ago, where we planned to do something about that, the leader said we would do it together. Now it turned out he had already given up a long time ago. But he didn't tell anyone. I worked out a guild event to have some fun together, he even encouraged me - and then he couldn't even tell me whether he would participate or not. So I hope you understand that words alone don't really help me feeling better.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Manah - 09.06.2008, 19:12
So it's not a big problem if two people leave the guild completely without telling everyone. So it doesn't concern me if my guildmates don't tell me anything. So it's not my problem, because I didn't know until now there is a problem at all.
It's always the same. Always. It was like that with every single guild that failed. I'm getting tired of this. Really, really tired.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Cpt. Chaos - 09.06.2008, 21:44
Manah wrote: I'm getting tired of this. Really, really tired.
100% agreed.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Holiday - 09.06.2008, 23:18
I didnt know they left guild and didnt know anything either. I have no time to read all till party finished, was a shock after reading about everything.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Cpt. Chaos - 10.06.2008, 15:08
I don't even have an idea what was going on. I came home, went online and all went to shit.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Blue-Eyes - 10.06.2008, 17:10
I don't know whats up, myself. I was online, got one message "bye" and all of Tims Chars went out of guild. And offline.
I looked into forum, read this, got sad and thought i messed up big time. So i left, in that way he could get back to guild. He is longer in the guild, so if i mess things up, i better leave. That was my way to think.
After some talk and some realisation, i was proven wrong. To be honest, i don't know what this is about. Like sua said, this is kindergarten. Things shouldnt be done this way, if there is no "hidden/unknown" thing this is about.
I am back in guild now, i don't care about this problem, anymore.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Abderita - 12.06.2008, 09:01
After some one-to-one contacts now it seems that we calmed down a bit.
As Blue said, he is back in guild allready and I hope Tim will come back also.
I hope we can go on leaving this troubles behind, if there is something to be cleared please do between people it concerns before talking to all others about it.
If there is something you want all to know please post here. The more people know the more they can understand.
Don't make Stardust :ertrink: we are worth to be a great guild.
Re: Just some words that have to be said
Holiday - 12.06.2008, 09:45
Yes, wish all of us can support each others, we won't make Stardust :ertrink:
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