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Re: AN INTERVIEW WITH MAITREYA ISHWARA, Baden-Baden 2006
kirana - 20.09.2006, 22:17AN INTERVIEW WITH MAITREYA ISHWARA, Baden-Baden 2006
AN INTERVIEW WITH MAITREYA ISHWARA
(RAINBOW SPIRIT FESTIVAL, BADEN-BADEN MAY 2005)
Part one
Q. So what is enlightenment?
A. Enlightenment is a state of consciousness in which the mind becomes completely expanded and full of light; literally, the mind merges with light and consciousness, and in this merger, it is like an impregnation: the divine light of consciousness merges with the human mind and totally transforms that mind so the mind is no longer busy with just thinking. The mind is really a vehicle for light; it becomes full of light, and with this light there is tremendous bliss and love and ecstasy; so enlightenment is a state of grace, of love and bliss and ecstasy wherein the mind is a vehicle for light rather then just a machine that is cranking away with endless thoughts. [and] One of the things that happens is that silence becomes natural for the mind; it does not need to think compulsively; it is just empty and luminous and full of light and love; it thinks when [is] needed, but otherwise, it just enjoys being silent. So it is a good thing, and it is everybody’s destiny. This is the ultimate climax of human evolution.
Q. But why, if it is our natural state, in a way, why is it so difficult? Let’s say, why is it still so rare?
A. Because it is the climax of evolution; it is not the natural state, in the sense that everybody is born enlightened; it is natural only in the sense that it is going to happen to everyone, eventually--but ‘eventually’ is the key word.
Q. So it would be a mistake to say that everyone is already enlightened, but they just did not yet get to the point of recognizing that?
A. Yes, it is a mistake; some teachers say that, but it is not really true; and you know it is not true; look around you.
Q. Yes, for me it is clear.
A. It is not only clear for you; it is clear for everybody who is honest; it is just simply not the case.
Enlightenment is really the climax of human evolution, and it doesn’t happen until there has been a long, long journey of seeking and searching and trying everything possible to transcend the darkness of the unconsciousness that is the human condition. And to merge with that light; and that merging with the light is not just something that is natural for everybody; it is inevitable; it is going to happen, it is certain, but for 99.99% of humanity, it hasn’t happened yet. So it is not accurate to say that everyone is enlightened, just by being human. It is really the final peak of evolution.
Q. So would you say that it requires a long and hard road?
A. I would say that it is a matter of time before it happens to everybody, and that is really all it is; as time moves along, your soul grows in consciousness; enlightenment is going to happen eventually; it has to happen, but it requires a long journey of preparation before that happens. So it is really just a question of time, and part of that time will be spent with spiritual practices and disciplines and seeking and searching and living with enlightened teachers and trying to achieve this great goal--failing many times. This is going to happen to every seeker; every seeker will pass through those experiences, but finally, when the time is right, it happens, and then it seems very easy and very natural and you go, oh, it was not any big deal. But of course, you forgotten the twenty lives of preparation before that moment of revelation comes. So yes, it is easy when it happens.
Q. What is God?
A. God is the power, the intelligence that creates the universe; and the ultimate reality of God is consciousness or awareness, and that awareness has different aspects: the ultimate part or state of that awareness is transcendental consciousness which is eternal, uncreated and formless--beyond time, beyond space, beyond the universe; and also, that consciousness is the universe. So God is in you, in me, in the table, in the air, in everything that is the universe. So God is both the eternal beyond and the existence at the same time. God is all there is.
Q. Can you be jealous?
A. Not anymore; I used to be. Negative emotions have left me now. No, jealousy is gone, fear is gone; it is all gone.
Q. What does an enlightened person have to learn from life?
A. Well life is always teaching you something in terms of spiritual evolution; perhaps, there isn’t a lot more for people like me to learn in terms of expanding the limits of consciousness; perhaps there is not much further to go. If I look back, say two or three years, the state of consciousness I was in then compared to now is not very different. So there is not a big growth in consciousness happening anymore; it is a gentle expansion perhaps. I think the growth now is more in love and in sharing and in being useful; it is more in practical ways--learning how to be a more effective teacher, learning how to be a father.
Q. You have a child?
A. Yes.
Q. Is a she or a he?
A. He is a boy.
Q. How old?
A. He will be five in October 2006.
There are always things to learn: learning how to drive a race car fast and safely. There are things that can always be learned, but in terms of the evolution of consciousness, I do not think there is a lot more in that area for me to learn. But in the application of that, and sharing it, I think there is a lot more to learn, yes; and the sharing is probably the most important part--learning it inside for yourself is the first part; being able to share it usefully with other people, that is the interesting challenge, and that part I still have a lot to learn.
Q. Since when are you sharing?
A. Since 1998.
Q. And what has been until now the most difficult part, if there is any difficulty?
A. In my work you mean?
Q. Yes.
A. There is not any difficulty; it all just happens automatically; since the very first satsang--I sat down eight years ago with people for the first time, and somebody asked me a question and I just (he closes his eyes) started talking; it is always the same: when somebody asks, I have no idea what I am going to say and the words just flow through. It happens automatically, so it is very easy.
Q. And for the people who are asking questions, what do you think is the main difficulty, or does everyone have his own problem?
A. The problem that everyone has in common is that they are identified with their mind, and they think this mind is ‘me’; this thinking that the mind is ‘me’ is called the ego, and that is the basic problem that everybody has; and while you are identifying with the mind as ‘me’, you will suffer.
Q. So who gets enlightened?
A. Soul, the soul. Your individual soul merges with universal consciousness of God, and in this merger of your individual soul with divine consciousness, there is an explosion of light in your soul and being and heart and mind; so it is your individuality, which is essentially your soul, that becomes enlightened; and part of the soul is the mind. So as I was saying earlier, the mind itself becomes a vehicle for that light, and then the mind is no longer just a narrow little ego mind; it is a big, wide, bright, open universal mind; it is filled with light and love. Your mind has tremendous capacity for expansion beyond this narrow little box that most people live in.
Q. Sitting now with you and enjoying so much the silence, I remember that this was one of my biggest fears. A couple of years ago, I was, in a way, a completely different person; I was very sceptical, and I was also very afraid of this-- this silence, this stopping, this letting something else arrive, and I think that many people are just keeping busy all the time. Maybe in a way they are just running away from that. But I am left without questions because, of course, everyone has his own perfect moment to get there. So there are no rules to bring someone there.
A. Exactly! And it is always just a matter of timing, and when the time is right, then the circumstances will support your rapid growth; that is what happened to me, that is what happened to Buddha and that is what will happen to everybody; so it is really just a question of when the time is right, and until then, there will be a thousand and one distractions.
Q. Do you have any advice or recommendations for someone who already has started to have experiences?
A. Oh yes, but I have to respond to individual people; I do not have general advice. When in Satsang, a person asks a question, then I will respond to that person. But when you ask me a general question, it is more difficult to respond because everyone is in different circumstances--general advice yes: be more conscious, accept everything and trust life; trust that life is not accidental; trust that it is part of a great divine plan; and if you trust that life is part of a divine plan, then you can accept whatever happens to you, including all of the strange things; it is necessary, it is part of God’s destiny for you. If you can accept, and grow in consciousness while you are accepting, life will be sweet, suffering will be less. So for general advice, I can say that to everyone. And by growing in consciousness and acceptance, you also grow in love, automatically; naturally your heart will open, and your heart will open in a way which is not just an emotional opening but which is a deeper spiritual opening; it will be an opening of the heart which stays with you, which does not just come and go with feelings; it is not like you fell in love and you fell out of love, but the heart just opens and opens and opens and you remain in love even without a boyfriend. This will happen automatically just by cultivating consciousness and acceptance; love will grow automatically.
Q. Was it helpful for you to have teachers? Did you have teachers?
A. Yes, it is essential to have teachers, otherwise it is impossible; the journey is long and difficult without someone who has actually been ahead and knows what is possible. I can say: hey, however difficult it gets, I know that enlightenment is possible; it happened to me, it can also happen to you. Enlightened people take you into their heart by opening up a door, a sacred space, and they give you a taste; they let you know that actually, it is not just a dream; they let you know directly that it is possible. Without that support, it is unlikely to happen. So yes, I had teachers,
Q. How can we say anything with words that can describe what is happening in this sharing?
A. It is difficult--the words are very pale reflections of the reality, which is really beyond words; it is difficult.
Q. I can clearly feel this immense flow of energy passing through, but it is something that is invisible to the eyes.
A. And it is hard to describe also. What does bliss mean? What does ecstasy mean? What does cosmic love mean? What does awareness mean? You know these words are just little pieces of information, but the experience behind them is so vast, so huge, so indescribable.
And a lot of time in satsang I share in silence directly--heart to heart and being to being. [and] Words have their place as well; they are needed, but they really are a pale reflection of higher reality.
Re: AN INTERVIEW WITH MAITREYA ISHWARA, Baden-Baden 2006
kirana - 20.09.2006, 22:20INTERVIEW Part Two
Part Two
Q. How can someone recognize if someone else is enlightened?
A. It is difficult--who are you to judge? What you can recognize is how you feel when you are with somebody else; if you feel lifted up, if you feel that something special and new and beautiful is happening to you, then that is enough for you; that is significant for you. But how can unenlightened people judge if somebody else is enlightened or not; it is very difficult to know for sure. What you can know is what you experience, so perhaps it is enough just to know what happens to you.
Q. How do you deal with everyday problems?
A. Well I have lots of them, so I have plenty of experience. The first thing is that I just accept the situation fully without any complaint at all, and I take stock of the situation and recognize what are the circumstances, what is happening, and out of that assessment and acceptance, then some course of action happens or does not happen; if some action happens, then I go with the flow of the action, and sometimes no action at all happens; I simply watch the situation and do nothing. But often I take action, and the action comes from a place of complete acceptance rather than some kind of fight with, or struggle to try and fix it. I simply take whatever action seems necessary and if the problem gets resolved, good; if it remains, good; if it gets worst, good. I really do not mind; I just deal with life as it comes, without any fight or struggle. I have a lot of challenges.
Q. Is it true that somehow life becomes more complicated after enlightenment?
A. No, it has nothing to do with enlightenment; it depends on your life style. My life has become more complicated because I have a family and children--another one is coming, so two children--a wife goes with that. You know there are complications with wives and families (laughs). I have also been running a meditation centre, a meditation resort and retreat for five years [so] that runs as a business. As well as a spiritual teacher, and father, and author, I have to be a company director and manage a business. I have to understand finance and accounting and business practices. All of that is complicated, so that is a result of my lifestyle; it is not a result of enlightenment. If I were enlightened and living alone in a room somewhere, just writing or meditating, my life would be very, very simple. The complications in life come through involvements; family and business and other involvements create complications. If you do not have those involvements and you do not teach--many enlightened people do not teach, they live a very simple life; they do not have complications.
Q. But this again is not their choice?
A. Nothing is anyone’s choice, but I have had both experiences. After enlightenment, for a couple of years, I was completely alone and on retreat; I was just writing, living without any contact with anybody, and my life was so simple; there were no complications, there was no involvement with anyone so there were no complications. Also, the challenge of complication and involvement and learning how to be a father and a business person and a manager is interesting but it consumes time and energy and it is complicated; and of course problems come with those involvements; it keeps me busy and I have learned a lot of those areas now, and I have a feeling now I will be doing less and less practical, worldly things in the near future; I have the feeling I will be focusing more on my writing and spiritual work and less on the practical things that unenlightened people can do. I had to learn business, and you do not need to be enlightened to do business (laughs).
So yes, complications do not come with enlightenment; they come with involvements.
Q. You said just now that anyhow, anything we do is not our choice, and that is one of the points that is more difficult for people really to accept--the fact that they are not in control anyhow, if they want it or not.
A. Yes, it is difficult; nevertheless it is a fact: essentially, the only power there is, is God, and that power is working and speaking and thinking and feeling through all of us, so no one is in control of their life at all; whether you experience that or not is something else; and of course most people don’t experience that, and the reason they don’t experience that is that God has created a divine hypnosis of free will and ego and mind which says, ‘I have to live my life’; and with that ‘I’ comes separation and suffering; with the surrender of that ‘I’, and the relaxation into the divine flow of life, freedom comes. Enlightenment doesn’t come through getting it ‘my’ way; it comes through surrender. This understanding supports surrender which eventually flowers into enlightenment. So it’s a helpful understanding on the journey.
Q. But it is not useful to try to understand this because you cannot; we will never understand why this illusion, why He created this; people would like to become God and understand why He decided to do it that way.
A. Well, you cannot fully understand the mind of God because that intelligence is way beyond the capacity of humans to understand; but that it is not necessary. What is necessary is to understand the human situation and to look at whether a certain set of beliefs are going to increase suffering or reduce suffering. The belief in free will and getting ‘my’ way increases suffering and separation. The understanding that God is the only power and the only doer supports surrender which reduces the suffering; so that is a simple and useful application. You do not have to understand the complex reasons behind the mind of God--just understand that by thinking in one way, there will be more suffering, and by understanding in a different way there will be less suffering. Would you rather have more or less suffering? In that case, would you rather think in a way which will produce less suffering or think in a way that will produce more suffering? It is not complicated.
Q. There is this word, integrity. Can an enlightened person not behave with integrity?
A. Well, it does happen. There are some cases where it has been recorded that enlightened people did things which could be described as not being with full integrity, but it is rare, it is unusual. Mostly, enlightened people have a natural and instinctive integrity; there are exceptions, but morality becomes natural; it is easy to be good, and good means being harmless. It is quite easy and natural to live harmlessly after enlightenment; the impulse to be destructive disappears; then you have integrity.
So enlightened people do not really need morality; they are naturally moral and ethical; they have a natural integrity which is difficult to escape from.
Q. People have a lot of difficulties accepting that God is also evil, or wars; in [the] satsang, this woman was mentioning Mr. Bush or…
A. There are worst people than Mr. Bush, by the way!
Q. Yes, of course.
A. Either God is everything, or there is a division in life and God is good and something else is bad; so there are the two possibilities. Think about it: if God is everything, does that mean ‘everything’; or does that mean only the good and not the rest of it? If God is everything, if God is all there is, then that means ‘all there is’.
Q. My own experience was really this: that when something bad happens to you, then you blame God; but in fact you can see only a very small fraction of the whole story, and maybe this bad thing could be your blessing.
A. Yes exactly: you have to look at the whole story. For example, Tiger Woods is a great and famous black golfer; if his ancestors had not been captured as slaves and taken out of the village in Africa, he would still be a poor villager in Africa somewhere. Is it better now that he has reached this peak of being the best golfer of the world, or would he be better off being some aboriginal in Africa suffering from Aids and poverty and diseases. So something bad happened to his ancestors but the result of that has given him an opportunity that he would not have. You have to look at life in this long, long timeframe of many, many lives and then you will see that yes, some misfortune here will have a positive outcome in the far future. Everything is connected and everything is balanced.
Q. And everything is perfect as it is?
A. Well everything is perfect in the sense that it is part of a carefully crafted divine story, and every detail of that story has been perfectly planned; so perfect does not mean that it is all nice and good; it just means that it is perfectly created in balance so there is an equal amount of negative and positive, and it is perfect in the sense that it is always evolving from a more negative to a more positive state. So the good times are always coming; yes, it always gets better and better; it is a perfectly created and orchestrated story and it is very complicated; of course we only see a little bit of it, which is this moment of my life, and it may not look perfect to you but you do not see the whole picture.
Q. Someone could say: what makes you think you are enlightened?
A. It happened to me. What makes you think you are a woman? Do you just believe it or do you know? It is as clear as that, just as clear as I know that I am a man. I also know that this thing has happened to me and if you read my biography you will see that there is a long history of events. I have been living with this state now for 10 years, so it is certain to me that it has happened to me--after 10 years of living without problems or negative emotions and living always in a positive state, it is clear that something has happened. What makes you think you are not enlightened? (Laughs).
You still have some problems?
Q. Sometimes yes.
A. Once all these problems totally disappear and do not come back, and they do not come back for a long time, then it has happened; so that is all it is. It is actually a very natural state to live without problems and to always be in a good mood; so it is not a big deal; perhaps a little unusual.
Q. Sometimes I have the feeling that my body is getting used to this huge amount of energy. I have, a lot of times--I could call them ‘headaches’-- but they are not really headaches because I know it is something else. In your biography, I could really recognize when you are talking about the changes in your body; it is like if the body is not used to this vibration.
A. Yes, one has to adjust and that adjustment takes a long time and it is the main work. Actually what has to happen, is the expansion and the adjustment of the nervous system, so living with enlightened people is good because it constantly challenges your nervous system to expand to higher and higher degrees of energy and that expansion is absolutely necessary. If enlightenment would happen to most people now, they would die; the nervous system could not cope with the energy, so preparation of the nervous system through gradual expansion is absolutely essential; and the best way to do that is by living with enlightened people. They challenge you to expand.
Q. How could I share this gift that I am feeling with someone who is very sceptical about all this? Is it not necessary?
A. Well, no. You can only really share what you know yourself; you can share your experience, and that is really all; it is difficult; it is better to let enlightened people speak for themselves because they can speak out of their own authority; if you speak on their behalf, then you are repeating something which you do not fully know for yourself. So you do not have full authority to speak, but where you do have authority is in your experience. So you can share, with authority, what happens to you; and if you stick to what is true for you, you have more power than by just repeating what somebody else has said.
Q. Yes! This is one of the sources of many misunderstandings--when people are repeating words of enlightened people.
Yes, because you do not really know from your own experience.
A. Also because an enlightened person will react only in the moment so this thing will be true for that person in that moment.
Q. Yes!
Q. Is there any difference between enlightened women and enlightened men?
A. No! (Laughs!!!).
Q. Same feeling for you?
A. Very different, but with each person--exactly the same, and at the same time very different; it does not matter if man or woman, but still the same. Different forms, sometimes different words, but the same-- ‘Wow’!
Q. Have you been jealous before?
A. Yes, sure; I had everything; I had all possible problems like everyone does.
Q. I think that this is for me still, maybe, the heaviest one. Before, you were saying what makes you think you are not enlightened? But this is still something that sometimes touches me in the moment; it disappears more quickly than before because by accepting, something else happens; but it is definitely something that still…
A. What is required is that it goes away faster; and if it keeps going away faster and faster and faster, that means that it is staying for less and less and less time, so eventually it will just be there for five seconds, and then it is gone. So that is not much of a problem. If it is there for five years, it is a problem; if the time get less and less and less, that is really not much of a problem. And that is the way it goes: through acceptance and awareness, problems still arise, fear and pain and jealousy and other things arise, but they don’t stay for so long and eventually they just come and they are gone, and then they just almost come, but they don’t even quite come, and then they just don’t come at all.
Q. One thing that really helped me in this process is realizing that it is just energy, and that I give this name to the energy and this makes me feel bad in a way.
A. If you just feel the energy without making a story in your mind about it, then it is much less of a problem; probably most of the problem is in the mind; there is some in the heart if something is a pain, emotional pain.
Q. Yes this is true!
A. But that emotional pain is fuelled probably 80% by what is going on in your mind; so if the mind is accepting that there is an emotional pain in the heart, that pain will be much, much less.
And if the mind is making up some big story of revenge and whatever, then it will be much worse.
The two basics laws that God creates within are the laws of Karma and Balance, and they are quite connected. Karma just means that everything that you do will come back to you and Balance means that there will be equal amounts of negative and positive. So these are the two basic laws within which God creates the human experience. There are a lots of other laws in the natural world, and science knows about those, but these are the spiritual laws that God uses to create within, and not everyone is aware of these spiritual laws; even many enlightened teachers are not aware of these spiritual laws, but they are the basic two laws that God sets as a framework for creation of human affairs, and they make human life very interesting and very complex and balanced and fair and just!
It is a good thing! And it is much more complicated to create balance and justice than just to have random events happening. If God would just create random events, then it is not a big deal. But to make it all fit together and be perfectly balanced and to have it all equal and just within the laws of Karma, it is very complicated. So the creative challenge involved with these laws of Karma and Balance for God is immense and He enjoys the challenge; otherwise, it could be just a random creation and nothing would make any sense and it would be much less complicated and much less creative. God enjoys the creative challenge. Not everybody knows that!
Q. Nice meeting you!
THANK YOU!
(Meet Maitreya on www.ishwara.com)
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