Mercs

Samurai Legends
Verfügbare Informationen zu "Mercs"

  • Qualität des Beitrags: 0 Sterne
  • Beteiligte Poster: nooK - Viziroth - tegeus-Cromis - Omerta - Forbidden - Lyncor - Black_Mage - Meh - Kouenzan - Anton - valkemiere
  • Forum: Samurai Legends
  • Forenbeschreibung: Official forums
  • aus dem Unterforum: Balance Issues
  • Antworten: 31
  • Forum gestartet am: Mittwoch 06.10.2004
  • Sprache: englisch
  • Link zum Originaltopic: Mercs
  • Letzte Antwort: vor 13 Jahren, 7 Monaten, 1 Tag, 4 Stunden, 17 Minuten
  • Alle Beiträge und Antworten zu "Mercs"

    Re: Mercs

    nooK - 17.08.2006, 16:52

    Mercs
    Many people complained that mercs are just too expensive in 0.7.
    So I made them cheaper for 0.8 ->

    Code: Ashigaru - 150 gold
    Archer - 250 gold
    Ninja - 300 gold
    Elite Archer - 350 gold
    Yari Cavalry - 500 gold

    Also I increased the stock to 5 of each of them.

    Please tell me your opinion: Are they too cheap now? Should the stock replenish intervall be increased to hinder huge armies?



    Re: Mercs

    Viziroth - 17.08.2006, 17:10


    I think that may be just a little too cheap, cause then you get noobs who will just mass creeps and just devastate, and plus you'll over power the pull to one player for a massive creep play.



    Re: Mercs

    tegeus-Cromis - 17.08.2006, 18:54


    Quote: I think that may be just a little too cheap, cause then you get noobs who will just mass creeps and just devastate

    If such a tactic were so effective, people who used it would be the opposite of 'noobs,' surely?

    to nooK: I think there's nothing wrong with the price in itself, but with the new magic resistance you'll be adding/have added to mercs, one or the other might need some readjustment. Playtesting will be needed, of course; sadly I am a little busier now that I've started college. :( Nothing wrong with having stocks of 5, either; since heroes don't actually have to be near the building to purchase a unit, they have always been able to amass armies at their leisure anyway.



    Re: Mercs

    Omerta - 17.08.2006, 19:06


    Viziroth wrote: I think that may be just a little too cheap, cause then you get noobs who will just mass creeps and just devastate, and plus you'll over power the pull to one player for a massive creep play.
    Mercenaries devastate only non-guarded (or badly guarded) lanes. Area of effect spells slay them within short time, so they wont be a big trouble to take out.



    Re: Mercs

    Forbidden - 06.09.2006, 17:24


    Quote: Mercenaries devastate only non-guarded (or badly guarded) lanes. Area of effect spells slay them within short time, so they wont be a big trouble to take out.

    I disagree. Have you ever actually played vs a big bunch of hired cavalry and elite archers being helped by a Warlord? The Warlord quickly restores many of the units to full hp especially with the old versions multiple time healing Shoguns Glory. I have played so with a Ronin and a Ninja vs a Warlord, another Ronin, lots of hired cavalry and elite archers. My ally and I kept using flying death and flying daggers all over on them, but it was barely any use. Also everytime we managed to kill the units, we had maybe 3-5 minutes of breathing time before there was a new same size bunch of units attacking and most times even if we did manage to drive the units back we lost a tower or 2 every attack and in the end when we had no towers left it was no longer possible to defend vs mass creeps. The area of effect for flying death isn't nearly large enough to be able to handle masses of units. And at max lvl of 5 it does barely half of the damage to a Yari Cavalry. After that it's very simple to just see the Warlord heal the units back to max and give them bonus attack speed which makes short work out of towers. Also I dont reccomend flying death in the middle of mass enemy units. There's a chance you get stuck in the middle and then it's really messed up because then they easily get both you and a tower or a spawn hall. Also flying daggers was our best option vs the mercs, but that too only managed to kill half or less of them befoer Warlord healing them. The fact is there's not really many skills that could really work vs. mass units at the moment. Rain of Arrows? If a person really wastes money on masses of troops they will be sure to make use of them. They won't fall to a rain of arrows. Either someone will stun Yumi Samurai or kill her. Only good spell vs mass units would be Dragon Souls, but at that time we didn't have a Warlord in play.

    How to make this harder? Three ways which I can think of:
    1. Make the cooldown for mercs longer. Way longer.
    2. Make the food cap for 1 player smaller.
    3. As nooK has stated previously, SL needs more AoE nukes or something with damage like Phoenix Wake, Crimson Wake (nooK knows what I mean) or Flame Strike or something with relatively short cooldown and good AoE or In line damage.

    The prices I find ok.



    Re: Mercs

    Forbidden - 06.09.2006, 17:32


    On another note, could it be possible to make some kind of hired merc, unit or building that could store other units in it? Something that would be around the same as Lead Zeppelin or Tanks in Tides of Blood, or something like Orc Burrows that could house units in it. Perhaps add this property to some shrines or make a unit like a wagon that could store units or something? Peasants move quite slowly around the map. And they are pretty easy to kill by any hero really even after they got some magic resistance. There's not really anywhere you can keep them safe at the moment except in the main base but then they are too far to repair if they're really needed to do so quickly.



    Re: Mercs

    tegeus-Cromis - 06.09.2006, 17:58


    The two new heroes should make for awesome crowd control (unless there has been some drastic change since the last beta I played), so I wouldn't worry too much about that.



    Re: Mercs

    Omerta - 06.09.2006, 19:19


    Forbidden wrote:
    I disagree. Have you ever actually played vs a big bunch of hired cavalry and elite archers being helped by a Warlord? The Warlord quickly restores many of the units to full hp especially with the old versions multiple time healing Shoguns Glory. I have played so with a Ronin and a Ninja vs a Warlord, another Ronin, lots of hired cavalry and elite archers. My ally and I kept using flying death and flying daggers all over on them, but it was barely any use. Also everytime we managed to kill the units, we had maybe 3-5 minutes of breathing time before there was a new same size bunch of units attacking and most times even if we did manage to drive the units back we lost a tower or 2 every attack and in the end when we had no towers left it was no longer possible to defend vs mass creeps. The area of effect for flying death isn't nearly large enough to be able to handle masses of units. And at max lvl of 5 it does barely half of the damage to a Yari Cavalry. After that it's very simple to just see the Warlord heal the units back to max and give them bonus attack speed which makes short work out of towers. Also I dont reccomend flying death in the middle of mass enemy units. There's a chance you get stuck in the middle and then it's really messed up because then they easily get both you and a tower or a spawn hall. Also flying daggers was our best option vs the mercs, but that too only managed to kill half or less of them befoer Warlord healing them. The fact is there's not really many skills that could really work vs. mass units at the moment. Rain of Arrows? If a person really wastes money on masses of troops they will be sure to make use of them. They won't fall to a rain of arrows. Either someone will stun Yumi Samurai or kill her. Only good spell vs mass units would be Dragon Souls, but at that time we didn't have a Warlord in play.


    Omerta wrote: Mercenaries devastate only non-guarded (or badly guarded) lanes. Area of effect spells slay them within short time, so they wont be a big trouble to take out.

    ...


    nah, joking. I haven't played any bigger inhouses than 1v1 where mercenaries are used, but I still think AOE works quite well against them. And as Tegeus said, two new heros have good crowd control. (Blaze&Order of Six, Frostlance&Fujin's Breath)



    Re: Mercs

    nooK - 06.09.2006, 23:13


    Ok spent my evening today on the mercs and some other small stuff ;)
    As I wanted to keep the Kill/Death ratio in the user interface (which is normally used for food) I triggered it all.
    Mercs are limited to 10 per player at the same time now (except peasants - they dont count). If you buy a merc and you already have 10 of them, your gold is refunded and a message appears that you reached the merc limit.
    Hope you all like this.

    Also I don´t know why I listed the archer unit at the beginning of this thread as there is no normal archer buyable via the merc camp. :P

    Code: Ashigaru - 150 gold
    Ninja - 300 gold
    Elite Archer - 400 gold
    Yari Cavalry - 500 gold



    Re: Mercs

    Lyncor - 07.09.2006, 08:16


    Only 10? A full group is 12... Bye ninja ganking :(



    Re: Mercs

    nooK - 07.09.2006, 13:18


    Hm aren´t 10 enough? I can increase it..



    Re: Mercs

    Lyncor - 07.09.2006, 15:50


    I think that 16, or perhaps 20, would be good.

    Enough for a full group, plus a few extra units for their various uses. Not enough for two groups, so a single player amassing gigantic armies is out of the question.

    Personally, I like to have a group of 12 ninjas (They're handy!) as well as over 5 ashigaru. What do I want with a whole lot of ashigaru?

    I use consumables a lot. Having ashigaru means that I don't have to spend half the game going back to base. A single ashigaru can hold 2 items, meaning 2 are needed for a full refill of consumable items. Plus, I tend to keep a couple hidden around the map with one or two useful items on each. If I'm nearby and need an item, very soon, I can get it. The downside of this strategy is that an enemy team can find my item stashing mercs and raid them, of course. :P

    But yeah. I think the mercenaries are an awesome part of SL - it's one of the game's defining points, that you can use the mercenaries to gain leverage over otherwise "Unbeatable" situations (Eg a much higher level // better equipped enemy hero that you need to take down).

    Besides. A single ninja ultimate = Bye bye, enemy army!



    Re: Mercs

    Lyncor - 07.09.2006, 15:52


    Forbidden wrote: On another note, could it be possible to make some kind of hired merc, unit or building that could store other units in it? Something that would be around the same as Lead Zeppelin or Tanks in Tides of Blood, or something like Orc Burrows that could house units in it. Perhaps add this property to some shrines or make a unit like a wagon that could store units or something? Peasants move quite slowly around the map. And they are pretty easy to kill by any hero really even after they got some magic resistance. There's not really anywhere you can keep them safe at the moment except in the main base but then they are too far to repair if they're really needed to do so quickly.


    Hide them in the trees. Problem solved.



    Re: Mercs

    Omerta - 07.09.2006, 17:09


    Lyncor wrote: Only 10? A full group is 12... Bye ninja ganking :(
    Ninja ganking is possible with less than 12 ninjas as long as they don't get nuked the shit out of them right away. But say that set limit to twelve so you can have an ashigaru, about 10 ninjas or some elite archers/cavalry.

    I actually like Forb's idea of having somekind of shelter for peasants. I'd say that add a shelter that functions like burrow but has no attack. Buildable by the peasants, cost around 1000gp/3 honor.



    Re: Mercs

    nooK - 07.09.2006, 17:40


    Hm I think you can save your peasants well by just sending them back (also 30% magic reduction in 0.8). I don´t want anything like tanks in SL, look how crappy they can make the games in ToB..



    Re: Mercs

    Viziroth - 07.09.2006, 20:51


    Lyncor wrote:
    I actually like Forb's idea of having somekind of shelter for peasants. I'd say that add a shelter that functions like burrow but has no attack. Buildable by the peasants, cost around 1000gp/3 honor.

    1000gp/3honor seems like it may be a little high if it's only so that you don;t havta run your peasants an extra screen...maybe give it a small atk, not as big as a tower, but something, or maybe an aura. Or maybe just alow shrines to hold peasants. also 10 or 12 both seem like good amounts. Or maybe you can have a function that has the host choose the unit cap.



    Re: Mercs

    Black_Mage - 07.09.2006, 20:53


    Or......... you can put more cvilian houses in the base and all of the houses can be used like a schelter for the peasants.



    Re: Mercs

    Omerta - 07.09.2006, 21:15


    Black_Mage wrote: Or......... you can put more cvilian houses in the base and all of the houses can be used like a schelter for the peasants.
    We ain't playing Red Alert 2, dude.



    Re: Mercs

    Black_Mage - 07.09.2006, 23:41


    LOOOOOOOOOOOOL ......... no comment



    Re: Mercs

    Meh - 08.09.2006, 04:13


    Zomg, was that the first +1 comment?

    +2



    Re: Mercs

    Lyncor - 08.09.2006, 06:33


    Viziroth wrote: Lyncor wrote:
    I actually like Forb's idea of having somekind of shelter for peasants. I'd say that add a shelter that functions like burrow but has no attack. Buildable by the peasants, cost around 1000gp/3 honor.

    1000gp/3honor seems like it may be a little high if it's only so that you don;t havta run your peasants an extra screen...maybe give it a small atk, not as big as a tower, but something, or maybe an aura. Or maybe just alow shrines to hold peasants. also 10 or 12 both seem like good amounts. Or maybe you can have a function that has the host choose the unit cap.


    ....what the heck? I don't remember saying that, and after searching through my post records I can't find the post you're apparently quoting.

    Did you make up that quote? If so - why?



    Re: Mercs

    tegeus-Cromis - 08.09.2006, 11:11


    Dude, take an anti-paranoia pill and chill. :P He's confusing you with Omerta, who did actually make that post.



    Re: Mercs

    Omerta - 08.09.2006, 14:38


    I had quoted Lyncor and when Vizi quoted me, he was going to delete the Lyncor quote, I think, but accidentally deleted the wrong quote information.



    Re: Mercs

    Lyncor - 09.09.2006, 02:42


    Ahh. Okay... that makes more sense.

    I've just been misquoted in the past on forums and had unpleasantness to do with that.



    Re: Mercs

    Viziroth - 09.09.2006, 06:23


    yeah, sorry, i deleted the wrong part, and i'm top lazy to fix it lol



    Re: Mercs

    Kouenzan - 17.09.2006, 11:36


    lawl archers are to fragile and slowpoke but their damage is great. once chased they are too helpless. are they designed to be like that?



    Re: Mercs

    nooK - 17.09.2006, 11:46


    ofc, it would be a bit imba with high dmg, high armor, high hp...



    Re: Mercs

    Anton - 22.03.2007, 01:28


    agreed nooK archers are amazing as is



    Re: Mercs

    valkemiere - 22.03.2007, 11:25


    heloo, i'm new here, i don't know where to posting about game analysis,
    i have played with my friends, it's very cool!, but the game ending is so long, so they can bored, when we gather many soldier, the enemy can kill em all with one skill, so it's hard to finish the game. about money regen, can you raise it? thanks before



    Re: Mercs

    Lyncor - 22.03.2007, 11:45


    Then kill the hero so he can't use the skill...



    Re: Mercs

    Anton - 23.03.2007, 03:49


    if you need gold get shrines of wealth.



    Mit folgendem Code, können Sie den Beitrag ganz bequem auf ihrer Homepage verlinken



    Weitere Beiträge aus dem Forum Samurai Legends

    Icons - gepostet von Pandaren_Rulez am Samstag 22.09.2007
    NOOK - gepostet von Dalmakator am Samstag 03.11.2007
    Item - Net - gepostet von hatmaster am Montag 25.09.2006
    US East - gepostet von Anton am Donnerstag 17.08.2006
    Hero: Raikou Hogosha - gepostet von Omerta am Dienstag 09.01.2007
    A small thing - gepostet von Nightmare am Mittwoch 30.05.2007
    Bugs - gepostet von Kouenzan am Montag 01.05.2006
    Map Download - gepostet von nooK am Mittwoch 22.03.2006
    Congratulations.. - gepostet von nooK am Montag 14.05.2007



    Ähnliche Beiträge wie "Mercs"

    Mündige Mercs, geht wählen !!! - KeyserPal (Donnerstag 07.07.2005)
    Mercs alle Clans vereinigt euch - KeyserPal (Mittwoch 07.12.2005)
    City Mercs im Aufwind ? - KeyserPal (Dienstag 27.12.2005)
    Neue strategische Ausrichtung der City Mercs - KeyserPal (Samstag 02.07.2005)
    Was ist los mit den Mercs ? - KeyserPal (Sonntag 11.09.2005)
    Ein grosser City Mercs Clan..? - Serena (Montag 25.07.2005)