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Qualität des Beitrags: Beteiligte Poster: tegeus-Cromis - Metal Sonic - Galefury - Anonymous - nooK - Kouenzan - Skirn - IMassAcolyte - Fiuri - Forbidden - Lyncor - Vladhslavh - Omerta Forum: Samurai Legends Forenbeschreibung: Official forums aus dem Unterforum: Ideas Antworten: 35 Forum gestartet am: Mittwoch 06.10.2004 Sprache: englisch Link zum Originaltopic: Hero: Teppo-Taisho Letzte Antwort: vor 17 Jahren, 3 Monaten, 8 Tagen, 17 Stunden, 41 Minuten
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Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
tegeus-Cromis - 08.06.2006, 23:26Hero: Teppo-Taisho
Teppo-Taisho
I would prefer it if the robe were removed. He looks much better without, IMHO--
Role: Summons-reliant pusher/hero-killer
Attack range: 700
Attack speed: Slow
Damage: 40 - 42 (80 -82 at level 20; 100 - 102 at level 20 with Marksmanship maxed)
HP: 400 (1400 at level 20)
MP: 225 (750 at level 20)
Move speed: Significantly below average (I mean compared to other heroes, of course; I am not referring to the classification that comes up when you mouse over the armour icon.)
Strength (Primary Attribute): 14 + 2.11 per level (54 at level 20)
Agility: 15 + 1 per level (34 at level 20)
Intelligence: 15 + 1.84 oer level (50 at level 20)
[Notes: He has the worst begininning and end stats in the game. This is very much intentional, as I do not want him to become a Dwarven Sniper-like character who is godly at harassing early game and death on two legs late game. His damage at level 20 with Marksmanship maxed may seem like a lot, but bear in mind that at the beginning of the game, his attack speed is Slow, and at level 20 he will only have gained a measly 19 points of natural Agi. Without items, his attack speed at level 20 will probably just scrape Fast, which for comparison's sake is the attack speed of a level 1 Warlord.]
Skill 1:Marked Man
The Teppo-Taisho loads his arquebus with enchanted ammunition given only to the elite of his class. Upon firing, the Teppo-Taisho will set his target aflame, dealing it damage over time and marking it out as a target. 4 second duration, 900 cast range. Grants Truesight.
Level 1 - 75 initial damage, 4 damage per second.
Level 2 - 100 initial damage, 6 damage per second.
Level 3 - 125 initial damage, 8 damage per second.
Level 4 - 150 initial damage, 10 damage per second.
Level 5 - 175 initial damage, 12 damage per second.
[Notes: Pretty straightforward. The cast range is intended such that if you cast Marked Man within around 1 second of your target leaving your normal attack range, you will be able to hit him. This is so you can use it as a finisher if necessary, but not the way you would use Assassinate in DotA, where you pretty much just need to be able to see him to hit him. Will use the awesome Morph animation followed by the normal attack animation.]
Skill 2: Train Teppo Ashigaru
Though an accomplished arquebusier himself, the true strength of the Teppo-Taisho lies in the men he leads. When cast on an allied Dojo, Outpost or Town Hall, trains one Teppo Ashigaru. Teppo Ashigaru last until killed.
Level 1 - 1 maximum.
Level 2 - 2 maximum.
Level 3 - 3 maximum.
Level 4 - 4 maximum.
Level 5 - 5 maximum.
[Note: The mana cost for this should be quite high, as you will, after all, only be casting this at a Dojo or Outpost, meaning that there will be a fountain nearby. This is just so you have to wait a while regening before casting it again or charging off into battle. Of course, if the mana regen from in-lane fountains is reduced or removed in the next version, the mana cost for this spell should be reduced accordingly. Uses the Spell animation.]
Skill 3: Marksmanship
The Teppo-Taisho puts his men through a rigorous training regime. Their accuracy increases dramatically, giving them a permanent increase in damage. The Teppo-Taisho, already being a seasoned firer, benefits less from this training, gaining half the percentage benefit of his men.
Level 1 - Increases base damage of Teppo Ashigaru by 10%.
Level 2 - Increases base damage of Teppo Ashigaru by 20%.
Level 3 - Increases base damage of Teppo Ashigaru by 30%
Level 4 - Increases base damage of Teppo Ashigaru by 40%.
Level 5 - Increases base damage of Teppo Ashigaru by 50%.
[Note: This is what will give the Teppo-Taisho his bite. Teppo Ashigaru are rather sad combatants without this skill, as you will see later. The hero himself will gain a 25% damage boost, which may seem strong, but the truth is I have already considered this damage boost when deciding the hero's stats. Also, it only factors in the white numbers and the + damage from stats, just like Trueshot Aura, so you will not be able to mass Katana and get crazy damage from Marksmanship.]
Ultimate: Volley
Co-ordinating his men with hair's breadth precision, the Teppo-Taisho orders all Teppo Ashigaru within range to fire at a target simultaneously, delivering a devastating, armour-shredding attack. Must be used on an enemy with the Marked Man buff. If two or more Teppo-Ashigaru are involved in this attack, the target will be knocked down for a number of seconds.
Level 1 - 1.5 second knockdown, -4 armour to the target for 4 seconds.
Level 2 - 2 second knockdown, -5 armour to the target for 4.5 seconds.
Level 3 - 2.5 second knockdown, -7 armour to the target for 5 seconds.
Level 4 - 3 second knockdown, -10 armour to the target for 5.5 seconds.
Level 5 - 3.5 second knockdown, -14 armour to the target for 6 seconds.
[Notes: Very powerful or very useless. How it works is that when cast, all Teppo Ashigaru within 700 range of the target--meaning they are within attack range at the time of casting--will stop what they are doing for 1 second, then fire at the target simultaneously. They will hit even if the target leaves their range during that 1 second delay. The hero himself will be channelling during this delay, though he will participate in the Volley. 700 cast range, meaning the hero will always be able to participate. Will use the Spell animation for the hero, followed by the Morph animation, followed by his Attack animation.]
Unit: Teppo-Ashigaru
Damage: 26-32 (works out to 39 - 48 with Marksmanship maxed)
Attack speed: Slow
Range: 700
HP: 310
Armour type: Medium
Armour: 0
Move speed: Average
[Notes: Without Marksmanship, these guys are just archer creeps with longer range and a much reduced firing rate. With Marksmanship, they are like Elite Archers with a bit more damage, longer range and a much reduced firing rate. This seems reasonable to me for 5 skill points spent.]
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
Metal Sonic - 09.06.2006, 01:05
I like this guy, he is similar to mine in many ways. The last skill is quite interesting, I like it. Marksmanship... It's good, but it feels like it's missing something to me, a little plain or something. Other than that, everything else is perfect, great!
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
Galefury - 09.06.2006, 02:45
I like him. The ultimate is pretty much certain death at level 5 with 5 Ashigaru. Their fault for not killing them, though. I think Ashigaru should have some magic resistance btw. Maybe add it with levels. They would be useless late game otherwise I think. After all they are not summonable on the spot, and the hero greatly relies on them. Also I think they should gain first 1, then 2 item slots, so the hero doesn't have to buy another ashigaru or ninja for muling.
How about this:
1: 1
2: 2 and 1 item slot
3: 3 and 2 item slots
4: 4 and 20% magic resistance
5: 5 and 40% magic resistance
At only 310 HP 40% MR should be OK I think. Also it only comes later in the game, so they aren't invunerable to the weak nukes early on or something.
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
Anonymous - 09.06.2006, 09:58
Metal Sonic: Quote: I like this guy, he is similar to mine in many ways.
I told you. :P It is quite uncanny.
Quote: The last skill is quite interesting, I like it.
Thanks. I do not think I have seen an ulti that uses the hero's normal summons before, so I thought of this.
Quote: Marksmanship... It's good, but it feels like it's missing something to me, a little plain or something.
Well, not everything can be exciting. Yumi's +range +damage skill is not very exciting either, but it is needed.
Quote: I like him. The ultimate is pretty much certain death at level 5 with 5 Ashigaru. Their fault for not killing them, though.
Thanks. I estimate that it would guarantee a kill on a hero with about 800 HP remaining (initial damage + 2 shots while he's stunned). It is not exactly an ultimate that you can just spring on people, though; you tend to notice the presence of a big group of Ashigaru closing in on you. . . .
Quote: I think Ashigaru should have some magic resistance btw. Maybe add it with levels. They would be useless late game otherwise I think. After all they are not summonable on the spot, and the hero greatly relies on them.
I think they should only get this if mercenaries in the next version get it as well (which, IMHO, they should). Their fragility is not really fatal, anyway; in order to kill them, an enemy will have to enter the Marked Man + Volley danger zone. Only Ninja would be able to wipe them out with ease, which is okay with me.
Quote: Also I think they should gain first 1, then 2 item slots, so the hero doesn't have to buy another ashigaru or ninja for muling.
I am inclined, now that you mention it, to give them 1 item slot across the board. I think it would be sufficient for a 'free' chicken.
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
tegeus-Cromis - 09.06.2006, 10:01
That was me, of course. The second half of the post was meant to be addressed to Galefury, but I cannot edit it.
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
nooK - 10.06.2006, 01:24
Wow, I think he`s awesome. I don´t comment on single abilities because I think they are all great. This hero is very original and it`s a quite new type of hero where you have to micro your "summons" all the time. Also the animations fit very well, Black_Stan`s models are inspiring aren´t they? :)
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
tegeus-Cromis - 10.06.2006, 09:40
I'm so pleased to hear that! I was trying to steer this guy away from the usual cookie-cutter 'Summoner Hero' template, so I am glad to hear that I have (it seems) succeeded. And yeah, the models are great, no question. :D
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
Kouenzan - 23.06.2006, 23:19
i wanted this hero badly!! i like to play him right now so i can practice the real micro!!
his skills are so unique,
great hero overall
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
tegeus-Cromis - 24.06.2006, 09:41
Nice to hear that. I want to see him in-game too :P but it's quite impossible that he will be in the next version/betatesting map, I think. But hey, No Dachi and Onmyoji are enough excitement for now.
-
I think I will reduce the mana cost of Train Teppo Ashigaru. The added time spent regening will pretty much only introduce an unnecessary nuisance factor.
I think I made Teppo Ashigaru a bit weak, in retrospect, considering that their deaths will grant gold to the enemy. I will add magic resistance (to go with the magic resistance mercs will get in 0.8) and perhaps a little more HP/armour.
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
Galefury - 25.06.2006, 19:29
Maybe give them some form of unsummoning themselves to reduce the problem that they give the enemy exp and gold (a skilled player will often be able to unsummon them before they die, denying experience and gold). Of course vanilla unsummon would be very illogical, and them just killing themselves would be weird. Them blowing themselves up would be logical, but I'm not sure if it would be good for gameplay. But I'm sure if you like the idea you can think of something good.
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
tegeus-Cromis - 25.06.2006, 21:00
I don't know about that. I don't like giving the player such an easy out. Sure it would need some micro to use effectively, but if your micro is good, your summons should not die that often anyway. I also don't find the idea of arquebusiers blowing themselves up as logical as you do. :P
Perhaps they could have some sort of escape mechanism instead. Okay, so it sounds a little weird to have an escape mechanism on a summon, but why not? Something plausible, of course, not Windwalk or anything like that. Let me think about it for a bit.
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
Galefury - 25.06.2006, 23:02
Blowing them up would make a lot of sense. They need a lot of gunpowder with them to keep shooting. Still not that good gameplay wise imo. Some defensive unsummon or something useful for escaping would be better.
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
Skirn - 26.06.2006, 07:10
Honestly, how about you do nothing to the summons and just keep them as summons? Yeah, the enemy can kill them for gold, but it's a balance feature for the fact you get free extra units. No escape mechanism, no kamikaze, just plain ol' gun-shooting archers.
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
tegeus-Cromis - 26.06.2006, 12:55
That was pretty much what I intended from the beginning, but now that I think about it, a utility skill might make them more interesting to use. If they had, say, a temporary MS boost skill, you would now sometimes be able to chase with summons in situations when your hero cannot. Wouldn't that be novel? :P
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
Kouenzan - 26.06.2006, 15:34
how about a passive skill for them
like Arm Aim - disables attack for xseconds
Leg Aim - disables movement for xseconds
just my suggestions :)
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
IMassAcolyte - 29.06.2006, 05:24
I like that but are they passive or active abils?
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
Fiuri - 30.06.2006, 09:36
This is Great i like it hehe...
:suggestion - change the spearman weapon to sword
:why? - Because its nice that the summon will not look like as creeps
:change - ( hand ) change it to sword
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
nooK - 30.06.2006, 13:43
They have rifles not spears, and won´t have swords...
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
Anonymous - 01.07.2006, 15:01
nooK wrote: They have rifles not spears, and won´t have swords...
Opps! Sorry i ddnt mean the rifler's but i mean the spearman's
sorry my mistake of explaining!!!
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
nooK - 04.10.2006, 23:13
Just reread it again, must get my hands on making this hero...
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
Forbidden - 04.10.2006, 23:52
About that unsummoning thing that Gale suggested: Since this is feudal Japan, and the fellas carry katanas on their waists, why not just kill themselves (Harakiri or Seppuku)?
I realize that you don't want to make him some agility whoring DotA copy, but it's kinda illogical to me that when he gains str he gains more damage...? What's he gonna do, pull the trigger harder? :)
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
Lyncor - 05.10.2006, 00:30
I agree with skirn. They need to be just simple, gun-toting player-controlled creep.
An ability on the teppo ashigaru is pretty much unnecessary I think. They're already powerful enough, and microing your summons well is interesting enough. Besides, if they could disable the enemy (Even as a % chance on attack) and there's 6 of them... uh, that sounds like stunchain to me. The single most thing I hate about dota.
Being able to deny the enemy hero of any reward for killing them? Why should you be able to do that? That just encourages people to be lazy and have them as throwaway units. If they're truly elite soldiers with the hero as their general, then he should be teaching them to keep themselves alive at all costs - not to kill themselves at the first sign of trouble :P
Nice hero, though. Might want to be a bit careful with the stun on the ulti, considering teamwork (If you team him with ronin or ninja, for example). But overall? Pretty cool. I like it.
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
tegeus-Cromis - 05.10.2006, 10:52
Glad you (still) like it, nooK. :)
Lyncor, yeah, I don't want to give the summons a stun or anything, either. The MS boost ability would probably be okay, since that would just help them keep up with the hero or fall back when ambushed, but it isn't necessary. I don't think a 3.5 seconds stun as a level 5 ulti is excessive. Remember that it has a channelling period.
Forbidden, you're right, it doesn't make sense for him to gain damage as he gets stronger, but does it make sense for him to gain damage as he gets more agile? Gameplay > common sense. :P
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
Forbidden - 05.10.2006, 12:03
At least more sense than str. :) Agility might be considered as dexterity (affects accuracy and reflexes) so it would seem more logical that when his reflexes and accuracy improve he gains damage. But if str is what you planned as his main attribute then so be it. Whatever works best.
Also Intelligence main attribute might not be too bad either. Seems ok that he would do more damage when learning new stuff, growing wiser, gaining battle experience and commanding his troops.
NooK's choice. I just don't like str :D
Btw I came up with an interesting idea that could be considered for the Teppo-Ashigaru. What if they grew in level like heroes do? As if advancing from rookie :arrow: veteran :arrow: elite etc. Summons in general are old and variable, but are there any that advance in lvl like heroes do? And then when a high level Teppo-Ashigaru would be killed, a new one would have to be trained from scrap. I think it could be pretty interesting and give alot more depth to microing the troops.
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
Lyncor - 06.10.2006, 04:50
As he gets stronger, he can carry a slightly bigger and heavier gun.
Problem solved.
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
tegeus-Cromis - 06.10.2006, 10:09
Forbidden: Quote: At least more sense than str. Smilie Agility might be considered as dexterity (affects accuracy and reflexes) so it would seem more logical that when his reflexes and accuracy improve he gains damage.
Well, a huge part of accuracy is strength. You try shooting from a standing position for long periods of time and see if it's your agility or strength that starts to waver. :P
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
Forbidden - 06.10.2006, 13:32
Probably both will start to waver when you get tired although I find that you need endurance for shooting, not that much strength. And yes I will get to see in January 2008. That's when im going to the army. Whereas you Americans have your hired armies... :x You going to volunteer? I doubt it.
Anyway as I said before: use whatever works best for you as his main attribute. I'm just stating my opinion.
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
tegeus-Cromis - 06.10.2006, 14:51
I'm not an American, I'm a Singaporean, and I finished my 2.5 years of full-time national service in June. Then again, I never did manage to get my marksman badge, so perhaps I am not best qualified to judge. :wink:
And yeah, I get that. I am just explaining why I feel the design choices I have made make more sense. :) Of course in the end it is all up to nooK.
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
Kouenzan - 08.10.2006, 04:58
Quote: And then when a high level Teppo-Ashigaru would be killed, a new one would have to be trained from scrap.
reminds me of RA2. having 3 (stars, rank? whatever) when killed, it's gone
anyway, i like this hero. once implemented, i'm going to group this to mass archers :P
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
Vladhslavh - 10.10.2006, 18:33
humm... just a opinion, why not INT based dmg?
like if the hero learn more and more how to shot better? o.O
just one opnion...
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
Anonymous - 13.01.2007, 00:52
I know this is proly late notis from when the hero was created but i would love to see this hero in action when are you thinking of making/releasing him Nook?
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
Omerta - 13.01.2007, 10:48
AFAIK, this one isn't coming in the next wave of new heros.
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
Anonymous - 13.01.2007, 16:14
damn ;/
well cant wait anyway
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
Forbidden - 13.01.2007, 17:37
I doubt Volley will be able to pierce anti magic shield?
I considered an aspect of this skill: Will it be evaded by all skills like Rising Dragon, Flying Death? During a 1 second time when the hero shows his plans by channeling, it's relatively easy to dodge it with such skills. Possibly too easy.
Re: Hero: Teppo-Taisho
tegeus-Cromis - 14.01.2007, 00:33
I don't think it will be so easy. The target would have to use his ability just as the projectile is about to hit; given an extremely fast-moving projectile (as should be the case), I don't see many heroes being able to dodge it with any great chance of success. Blinking/jumping/etc. while the spell is simply being channelled will do nothing.
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