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Qualität des Beitrags: Beteiligte Poster: Kouenzan - tegeus-Cromis - nooK - Galefury - Fiuri - Anonymous - Lyncor - Anton - wizard.dark - Viziroth - Forbidden - Attin - Omerta Forum: Samurai Legends Forenbeschreibung: Official forums aus dem Unterforum: Ideas Antworten: 22 Forum gestartet am: Mittwoch 06.10.2004 Sprache: englisch Link zum Originaltopic: Hero : Souretsu Letzte Antwort: vor 16 Jahren, 4 Tagen, 7 Stunden, 37 Minuten
Alle Beiträge und Antworten zu "Hero : Souretsu"
Re: Hero : Souretsu
Kouenzan - 29.05.2006, 12:08Hero : Souretsu
here's my suggestion though, i dont know if it is balanced or not :P
Musashi Miyamoto / Genkou Matsumoto
Souretsu (it means brave/heroic, looks manly compared to a pirate :P )
Prmiary Stat: Strength
Starting Stat/Growth/movespeed, you decide :P
Grappling Hook
He uses it to save his allies but he take advantage of it against the enemies. Upon hooking the target, he slashes it with great might.
"Haul the antagonist
with the getaway protagonist"
Mana Cost: 150 all levels
Cooldown: 13 sec all levels
Level 1: 100 Slash damage, 0.3 sec slash-stun, 300 Units
Level 2: 150 Slash damage, 0.6 sec slash-stun, 500 Units
Level 3: 200 Slash damage, 0.9 sec slash-stun, 700 Units
Level 4: 250 Slash damage, 1.2 sec slash-stun, 900 Units
Level 5: 300 Slash damage, 1.5 sec slash-stun, 1100 Units
Works like meathook, but snagging has no damage. When the target is snagged unto you, you'll do the slash damage and stun. Can also use in allies, but no damage :P
*NOTE* not a meathook rip-off, let's assume dota:a did not exist :P also hooking as an escape, Removed
(icon is a muscular body, anyone has this?)
Impact Absorption
His body is capable of absorbing attacks from his enemies. He has a strange conversion of pain into strength making him rage in battle. 1 attack from the enemy gives you a bonus of 1 strength
"Pain is nothing compared
to strength that is devastating"
Level 1: Maximum of 10 Bonus Strength
Level 2: Maximum of 14 Bonus Strength
Level 3: Maximum of 18 Bonus Strength
Level 4: Maximum of 22 Bonus Strength
Level 5: Maximum of 26 Bonus Strength
The bonus strength counter will be reset upon death and upon using the ultimate.
<- can't find a better one
Provoke/Intimidate
Intimidates a target making it in a Berserk status, attacking you. The target will gain bonus attack speed and damage but it will suffer from armor penalty.
"Provoked in the midst of darkness
amid of blood thirstiness"
Mana Cost: 120/130/140/150/160
Cooldown: 12/14/16/18/20
Duration: 4/4.5/5/5.5/6
Level 1: Target has bonus 20% attack speed and 12 damage but suffers in armor penalty of 5.
Level 2: Target has bonus 25% attack speed and 18 damage but suffers in armor penalty of 6.
Level 3: Target has bonus 30% attack speed and 24 damage but suffers in armor penalty of 7.
Level 4: Target has bonus 35% attack speed and 30 damage but suffers in armor penalty of 8.
Level 5: Target has bonus 40% attack speed and 36 damage but suffers in armor penalty of 9.
ULTIMATE!!
Yuusen - Brave/Desperate Fight
Even in extreme danger, the Kaizoku gains more desperation giving him more strength. The Kaizoku unlocks an enormous reservoir of strength from his swords into his enemy causing the enemy suffer in blood loss.
In the desperation of fight
has an unimaginable might..
Level 1: TotalSTRx8 Initial Damage, 40% of his Missing HP as bonus damage, suffers bleeding 10dmg/sec in 10 seconds
Level 2: TotalSTRx9 Initial Damage, 43% of his Missing HP as bonus damage, suffers bleeding 12dmg/sec in 10 seconds
Level 3: TotalSTRx10 Initial Damage, 46% of his Missing HP as bonus damage, suffers bleeding 14dmg/sec in 10 seconds
Level 4: TotalSTRx11 Initial Damage, 49% of his Missing HP as bonus damage, suffers bleeding 16dmg/sec in 10 seconds
Level 5: TotalSTRx12 Initial Damage, 52% of his Missing HP as bonus damage, suffers bleeding 18dmg/sec in 10 seconds
Example: A great skill when properly used. The more in danger you are, the more the damage you will inflict. Impact Absorption bonus strength counter will also reset upon using this :P
EDIT: REWORKED, CHANGED THEME :P
Re: Hero : Souretsu
tegeus-Cromis - 29.05.2006, 12:28
Just a note: I think this topic should read 'Hero Suggestion: Kaizoku', as that is the hero class.
I am a fan of hard-to-target skills like Hook, so thumbs up for Grappling Hook, but it really is very similar to Pudge's. How about if it dealt a small, fixed amount of damage when it hit, then pulled the hero to the target, delivering a powerful, Blink Strike-esque hit which slows and deals damage based on the distance travelled? It would make more sense that way, and be more original.
I don't like Blast Mine. For better or worse, the Yumi Samurai already has a mine ability; we don't need another one. Also, what's the use of the random pushback? I don't see a point.
Kenbu, eh. It's basically just a Sha'Technique that ministuns the primary target, isn't it? A bit boring. Needs work. (As a side note, a 0.5 second stun is not really mini any more. Better to describe it as 'a short stun'.)
Good luck with the ulti! BTW, what are this hero's stats and primary supposed to be?
Re: Hero : Souretsu
Kouenzan - 30.05.2006, 11:02
wooh thanks cromis for commenting :D
he will be an agi hero :)
i'll rework the skills :) ohh i'll have to think the ulitmate! i'll be done by 1hr :)
thanks for the suggestion on grappling hook, i'll use your idea :twisted:
Re: Hero : Souretsu
nooK - 30.05.2006, 20:02
Ok, had a different theme for this hero in mind but I really like the hook ability.
Such aiming abilities are nice :)
The coin passive would be ok for a pirate hero too, but I don`t like his ultimate.
Re: Hero : Souretsu
tegeus-Cromis - 30.05.2006, 20:18
Noooooo. That gold gain is too broken. I would advise against gold gain abilities of any sort, actually. Also, gold gain + Fury Swipes in one skill? A bit good, no?
Re: Hero : Souretsu
nooK - 30.05.2006, 23:37
This wasn`t about balance or the skill in particular, just wanted to state that a gold ability would be ok for an pirate ;)
Re: Hero : Souretsu
Kouenzan - 31.05.2006, 13:46
going to remake the ulti, it's only a 5min brainstorming :P
i wanted this hero to be fun, and not boring :)
EDIT: hey cromis, why no gold skill? i might remove the fury-swipes effect
ULTIMATE REWORKED :P
Re: Hero : Souretsu
Galefury - 06.06.2006, 10:02
First things first, I hate the Pirate theme for that model. He doesn't look like a pirate. Also he is imba.
Hook: Movement manipulation, stun and damage all in one skill? Way too good. The damage is on par with most nukes, the stun is pretty long, and movement manipulation is always a very very powerful tool. Yes, it's hard to target and costs a lot of mana, but it's still too strong. Maybe make it less imba by increasing the stun and leaving damage as it is, but removing the movement manipulation and making pirate pull himself to the enemy instead of pulling the enemy to him. That would also be more pirate-like.
Gold skills in an AOS are quite hard to balance. Also that would be way too much gold. Adding bonus damage on top of it is just even more imba. Completely remove this skill IMO and replace it with something cooler and less imba.
Kenbu is pretty pointless IMO. Also this hero has 2 passives, one high cost skill and a very situational ultimate. He needs another active skill.
Ultimate: Well, kinda like techie suicide without the direct suicide. I like it, it makes killing this hero quite risky, acting as a kind of safety belt. It is very situational though, but that's OK imo. The progression is too strong though: The direct damage parts of the skill increase, the part of his lost HP that is dealt as damage rises, and his HP themselves also rise. As I see it this would be quite pitiful early game, and quite overpowered late game. I think the percentage of his lost HP dealt as damage should stay constant at 50% or something, while the direct damage should start at 200 and go to 300. Bleeding progression is fine. The skill should also be somehow dodgeable maybe. 300 damage + 180 over time + variable but potentially very lare amount of damage could instakill lots of people combined with hook. So making this somehow dodgeable (but hard to dodge) would make this better I think.
So overall IMO replace his 2 passives, one with some low manacost active skill, the other one with a different passive. Also I think strength primary would be nice, with all stats being pretty average but strength sticking out slightly and agi being the lowest. Kinda like pirate in ToB, a strength caster with mana problems.
Re: Hero : Souretsu
Kouenzan - 06.06.2006, 10:42
just wait for the updates :P reworking right now :)
EDIT: HERO REWORKED :P any comments are greatly appreciated
Re: Hero : Souretsu
tegeus-Cromis - 08.06.2006, 16:46
All you have done is take Meathook and buff it. I reiterate, it would be a better idea to make the hook pull you to the target, rather than vice versa.
Re: Hero : Souretsu
Galefury - 09.06.2006, 03:04
Uhhh yeah, giving him permanent Battlerage sure made him less imba. *g*
How about this:
Hook: stuns the enemy and pulls you to him, slashing for nice damage when arriving. Stun 1s lvl 1, 2s lvl 5, damage and range negotiable. High mana cost.
Combo Attack (stupid name, think of something better): Melee range, hero becomes immobile for 3s and his attack speed rises by 100% to 300%. Attacks the target of the skill while it is in range. Low mana cost. Nice synergy with hook, but you will only get 1s of attacking the enemy. Also interesting for sieging and generally during ganks. Hook + this would make a great gank opener, with ninja ensnare and ulti as follow-ups.
No name idea: Makes everyone in an aoe around the target (growing with level) attack the target of the skill for x seconds. This includes allies of the target, but they only attack the hero for half of the duration. Anyone can cancel the attack, it is not forced. 4s to 8s duration. AOE shouldn't be too large.
EDIT: Well, actually this skill sucks. Think of something better.
Ulti: Deals 200, 225, 250, 275, 300 + 50% of lost HP to an enemy hero. Does at least 200-275-350-425-500 damage total. Takes 3, 2.5, 2, 1.5, 1 seconds to cast, during which the enemy needs to stay in a certain area around the hero (constant with level). This makes it dodgeable and a bit less situational, because even at full HP you get some big guaranteed damage. 500 dodgeable singletarget damage is not powerful for an ulti, though. I think it just wouldn't be used that much without some nicer minimum damage. The minimum damage at level 5 is equal to the amount he would do with 400 lost HP.
Re: Hero : Souretsu
Fiuri - 30.06.2006, 11:01
Galefury wrote: First things first, I hate the Pirate theme for that model. He doesn't look like a pirate. Also he is imba.
Hook: Movement manipulation, stun and damage all in one skill? Way too good. The damage is on par with most nukes, the stun is pretty long, and movement manipulation is always a very very powerful tool. Yes, it's hard to target and costs a lot of mana, but it's still too strong. Maybe make it less imba by increasing the stun and leaving damage as it is, but removing the movement manipulation and making pirate pull himself to the enemy instead of pulling the enemy to him. That would also be more pirate-like.
Gold skills in an AOS are quite hard to balance. Also that would be way too much gold. Adding bonus damage on top of it is just even more imba. Completely remove this skill IMO and replace it with something cooler and less imba.
Kenbu is pretty pointless IMO. Also this hero has 2 passives, one high cost skill and a very situational ultimate. He needs another active skill.
Ultimate: Well, kinda like techie suicide without the direct suicide. I like it, it makes killing this hero quite risky, acting as a kind of safety belt. It is very situational though, but that's OK imo. The progression is too strong though: The direct damage parts of the skill increase, the part of his lost HP that is dealt as damage rises, and his HP themselves also rise. As I see it this would be quite pitiful early game, and quite overpowered late game. I think the percentage of his lost HP dealt as damage should stay constant at 50% or something, while the direct damage should start at 200 and go to 300. Bleeding progression is fine. The skill should also be somehow dodgeable maybe. 300 damage + 180 over time + variable but potentially very lare amount of damage could instakill lots of people combined with hook. So making this somehow dodgeable (but hard to dodge) would make this better I think.
So overall IMO replace his 2 passives, one with some low manacost active skill, the other one with a different passive. Also I think strength primary would be nice, with all stats being pretty average but strength sticking out slightly and agi being the lowest. Kinda like pirate in ToB, a strength caster with mana problems.
:Crossing - He Look's Like a Pirate to me... haha
:Suggestion - change the right hand weapon with the weapon of butcher..
:why? - so that the hook skill will be more realable...
:Skill Effect - about the skill hook follow the style of meat hook like the dota effect but change the graphics so that it will be unique!....
Re: Hero : Souretsu
Anonymous - 24.01.2007, 05:22
Hmm, wheres Stunning and bring down by Wood Stick?
:P
Re: Hero : Souretsu
Lyncor - 24.01.2007, 16:40
To be honest, the hero needs a LOT of work. It's pretty cool just as a hero for some map, but for starters it's grossly overpowered in terms of SL and secondly... all the skills are pretty much just copies of other skills with the numbers changed.
The meathook is far too powerful (Movement of enemy + HUGE nuke + stun to boot? Yeesh!) - and you know SL players will be able to hit with it no problem, always remember that the abilities of any SL hero should be very hard to use to facilitate skill levels with the hero. That brings me to the next point - it's the ONLY skill ability on the hero. The rest are point/click or self buffs. Once you get good at hook, this hero is ridiculously easy to play.
Impact absorbtion is essentially battlerage, but permanent. Getting hit 26 times is EASY, especially when you get 25 health every time you're hit. Just run in creep, wait for it to peak and run out. You're basically giving the hero 26 bonus strength, permanently, as a good player won't die much at all and using the ult on this hero generally means the combat's over or it's time to run anyway. Totally imba, no player skill basis.
Provoke? Um... please, don't add a skill that takes control of an enemy hero and forces them to attack you. Skills that do that, such as Axe's one in DotA, are so horribly not fun for your opponents that it makes fighting you an infuriating task - not a fun battle and a chance to prove their mettle. Plus, it's extremely overpowered as you can just cast it (No aim required, either) and spend the next 6 seconds forcing them to chase you back toward your towers. The buff means nothing to a skilled player. It's essentially a 6 second, non-player-skill-based, targetted stun that also moves the enemy hero -and- downs its armour extremely so your teammates & creep can slaughter it. I downright HATE this skill to its very core.
The ult... well... the damage calculations are coming up as insane. A big nuke base + percentage health missing damage (On a STR hero, that's a massive amount when he's on a small amount of health - especially if you add items) + a rather large damage over time to boot?
This skill will kill heroes outright. Plus, it's not even aimed... it's another point/click nuke. Combine it with meathook and you're insta-gibbing people. I don't need to to tell you how bad that is.
Another point: Go to low health, Provoke them to chase you, skywalker/blink, Meathook just before the provoke wears off and Ult them? That is an insanely easy to pull of solo-hero stunning nuke that facilitates 1500-3000 damage, all variables considered. It will outright slay a YARI.
... the model is SWEET though. I'll give you that.
Sorry to come across as harsh, dude. I mean no disrespect to you at all - just voicing my thoughts as I read through the character. Unfortunately, they weren't "This hero is a shining beacon of balance and innovation".
I sincerely hope that with a major rework, you can get the hero to fit. I LOVE dual wielders. To note, how come there was nothing in his skills to do with that? If you're going to use a dual-wielding model, then give him at least one skill that revolves around it.
Re: Hero : Souretsu
Anton - 26.01.2007, 02:38
ok some quick points.
when i played dota, i played pudge all the time and loved him but this hero skreams pudge at me, wich makes me sad because the heros in SL (as far ass i no) do no apear in other maps, in other words they are original. this is hero is not and that makes me sad. while he is a cool idea and with work he could be a awsum hero at the moment he dose not sute the map in my opinion.
anoter slighly random point is: pirates are cool but i can see people useing this to see who is better pirates or ninjas. wich is not the objective of the map.
also i dont like permanint battle rage(with out the negtive atack speed) on eny hero. also is he strenght or agilty based because in the hero description you said strenght but your second post you said agility, if agility this skill makes no/very little sence to me.
thats all for now. i mean no ofence man, i just dont see this hero working in SL.
Re: Hero : Souretsu
wizard.dark - 26.02.2007, 19:07
I know this hero idea was long forgoten but i was thinking....if you replace his main nook instead of point click with a ground click jump(much like in AoTZ)and make it absolutly horribly hard to land...wont that make for a sweet ulti if it does?i mean really it wouldnt have aoe or travel in line...it would be a 1 tiny litle space click.But then people might consider it to underpowered :(
Re: Hero : Souretsu
Viziroth - 27.02.2007, 17:21
Which hero are you talking about? Keeper of the light? Cuz I find his FFG to be incredibly annoying to use >.<.
Re: Hero : Souretsu
Lyncor - 28.02.2007, 08:01
Replacing one skill won't go anywhere near fixing this hero.
Re: Hero : Souretsu
Anton - 01.03.2007, 01:10
i have to agree with Lyncor on this one. and i have not got the time at the moment or the motivation to try and make this hero balanced or even fit in SL for that matter.
Re: Hero : Souretsu
Forbidden - 20.03.2007, 12:09
There's a "Chain Pull" spell on a spellpack named "40 spells".
It looks nice. It's just slow, so maybe if it can be sped up it could work nicely on some of the heroes that have been suggesting chain spells. In that spell he first pulls the target to him with a chain, then jumps in the air with the target and slams the target to the ground.
On another note there was also a good looking spell called Sword Art 43 in that pack. In that spell the target was attacked a random number of times from 10-16 by pushing him in different directions and always "blinking" to the direction he was going and attacking him again. I fear my explanation made very little sense. Try checking it out.
Re: Hero : Souretsu
Attin - 23.03.2007, 23:00Re: Hero : Souretsu
Kouenzan wrote:
ULTIMATE!!
Yuusen - Brave/Desperate Fight
Even in extreme danger, the Kaizoku gains more desperation giving him more strength. The Kaizoku unlocks an enormous reservoir of strength from his swords into his enemy causing the enemy suffer in blood loss.
In the desperation of fight
has an unimaginable might..
Level 1: TotalSTRx8 Initial Damage, 40% of his Missing HP as bonus damage, suffers bleeding 10dmg/sec in 10 seconds
Level 2: TotalSTRx9 Initial Damage, 43% of his Missing HP as bonus damage, suffers bleeding 12dmg/sec in 10 seconds
Level 3: TotalSTRx10 Initial Damage, 46% of his Missing HP as bonus damage, suffers bleeding 14dmg/sec in 10 seconds
Level 4: TotalSTRx11 Initial Damage, 49% of his Missing HP as bonus damage, suffers bleeding 16dmg/sec in 10 seconds
Level 5: TotalSTRx12 Initial Damage, 52% of his Missing HP as bonus damage, suffers bleeding 18dmg/sec in 10 seconds
Example: A great skill when properly used. The more in danger you are, the more the damage you will inflict. Impact Absorption bonus strength counter will also reset upon using this :P
EDIT: REWORKED, CHANGED THEME :P
About the ultimate...
IF you start counting stuff you might just realize the unbalance...
lets assume that at hes last level he has 50 STR
50 * 12 = 600 (Kaze = Bullshit if compared to this...)
and then lets assume that he has lost 800 hp
800 * 0,52 = 416
Now that already is 600 + 416 = HOLYMOTHAFUCKINDOGSHIT! 1016 :shock:
+ Bleed 18 * 10 = 180
Total dmg = 1196 :shock:
Thats like 3 Kazes right there OR 2 Flying Daggers with every dagger hitting the target :shock:
Re: Hero : Souretsu
Omerta - 23.03.2007, 23:32
I advice reading the earlier posts, that has already been mentioned.
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