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Qualität des Beitrags: Beteiligte Poster: nata - annybunny Forum: Marauder Forum Forenbeschreibung: Hier ist das Reich der Tunichgute aus dem Unterforum: Harry Potter Bücher Antworten: 4 Forum gestartet am: Montag 03.10.2005 Sprache: deutsch Link zum Originaltopic: Warum Dumbeldore? Letzte Antwort: vor 17 Jahren, 11 Monaten, 22 Tagen, 12 Stunden, 4 Minuten
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Re: Warum Dumbeldore?
nata - 04.05.2006, 14:44Warum Dumbeldore?
Das ist zwar nicht der "Trauer Tread" aber es geht jetzt nicht um die Tatsache das Dumbi tod ist sonder darum wie er gestorben ist!
Haben wir nicht schon oft gelesen das der "Avader Kedavra" Fluch den Getroffen zwar töted aber nicht 8 menter in die Luft befördert, so wie es bei Dumbi gewesen ist. meine frage nun ist warum ist das passiert?
Re: Warum Dumbeldore?
nata - 06.05.2006, 01:15
sooo ich hab da nun mal ein paar lustige therorien zusammengetragen die mich über so manches schmunzeln lassen was ich in letzter zeit gelesen habe. Lehnt euch zurück und genießt meine dummen gedanken :wink:
alle infos die ich jetzt liefere stammen von einer super interessanten homepage die ihrHier einlesen könnt
die texte sind in Englich ich werde aber immer darunter eine kurze zusammenfassung in deutsch schreiben
Theorie 1
Zitat: 1. Dumbledore's Big Chill
Harry and Dumbledore are up on the top of the tower underneath the Dark Mark. Harry is wearing his invisibility cloak, Dumbledore ordered him to put it on before they mounted their brooms to ride to the top of the tower. Harry hears footsteps and looks around, but Dumbledore orders him with a gesture to retreat. Harry draws his wand and backs away:
The door burst open and somebody erupted through it and shouted, "Expelliarmus!" Harry's body became instantly rigid and immobile, and he felt himself fall back against the tower wall, propped like an unsteady statue, unable to move or speak.(HBP pg 584/545)
It's interesting to note that things are happening so fast, even Harry is momentarily confused:
He could not understand how it happened -- Expelliarmus was not a Freezing Charm -- Then, by the light of the Mark, he saw Dumbledore's wand flying in an arc over the edge of the ramparts and understood... Dumbledore had wordlessly immobilzed Harry, and the second he had taken to perform this spell had cost him the chance of defending himself. (HBP pg 584/545)
Why did Dumbledore freeze Harry? Harry was already invisible to their attackers and in no danger.
The only explanation could be that Dumbledore already knew, had already planned, that he would die this night (or appear to die), and not only did he not want Harry to become involved and possibly be injured himself, he needed Harry to be a witness, to be able to tell everyone else what happened.
Dumbledore might have also promised Snape that he would make sure that Harry would not be able to interfere, knowing how Harry feels about Snape and what Snape was about to have to do.
The supposition that it was Dumbledore's plan to do this all along is supported by the fact that he acted so quickly to do it, almost without thinking, when Draco burst in on the scene.
Harry's own assumption that the Freezing Charm was done by Dumbledore is supported by the fact the curse lifted when Dumbledore left the tower minutes later.
In diesem Text geht es hauptsächlich darum warum Dumbi Harry den "Versteinerungs" Zauber auferlegt, einige Antworten wären, das Dubi wusste was mit ihrm passiert oder damit rechnete an diesn Abend getötet zu werden, hat dabei gleichzeitig Snape versprochen Harry nicht an dem Plan teilhaben zu lassen um Snape in einer weiße zu Schützen. die Theorie das dies Dumbledores Plan war wird damit unterstützt das er so schnell handelte obwohl "nur" Draco vor ihm stand und Harry wusste das der Fluch nur von dem Direktor stammen konnte den als der 2 min. später vom Turm viel lies der Zauber nach.
Theorie 2
Zitat: 2. Let's All Play Dead Together [Updated 2/25/06]
While Dumbledore is trying to talk Draco out of killing him, Dumbledore proposes an interesting way out for Draco:
"I can help you, Draco." "No, you can't," said Malfoy, his wand shaking very badly indeed. "Nobody can. He told me to do it or he'd kill me. I've got no choice." "He cannot kill you if you are already dead. Come over to the right side, Draco, and we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine." (HBP pg 591/552)
Dumbledore then offers to expand his mother in the protection, and even Lucius when he gets out of Azkaban.
This is very interesting, isn't it? Draco doesn't take him up on it, but Dumbledore is saying he has ways that could make it appear that Draco died when he really hadn't. Doesn't that sound exactly like what we suspect that Dumbledore has planned for himself?
This clue in Half-Blood Prince is especially interesting when placed next to another passage written much earlier. In the introduction to Quidditch Through The Ages, which was released between Goblet of Fire and Order of the Phoenix, J.K. writes as Dumbledore:
She [Madam Pince] suggested several alternatives, such as telling the people from Comic Relief U.K. that the library had burned down, or simply pretending that I had dropped dead without leaving instructions. (QttA pg viii)
Not only does J.K. mention fire in this passage (see clue #9 below), she also very clearly describes Dumbeldore himself suggesting faking his own death. Again, exactly what we suspect Dumbledore did at the end of Half-Blood Prince.
IMPORTANT REVELATION!
UK Edition Missing Important Text!
The UK edition of Half-Blood Prince is missing some text that is included in the American edition, and it's text that is very important to this clue!
This is the text as it appears in the UK edition:
"He told me to do it or he'll kill me. I've got not choice." "Come over to the right side, Draco, and we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine. What is more, I can send members of the Order to your mother tonight to hide her likewise. Your father is safe at the moment in Azkaban...when the time comes we can protect him too...come over to the right side, Draco...you are not a killer..." Malfoy stared at Dumbledore. (HBP UK Edition pg 552)
But this is the same passage from the American edition (text missing from the UK edition highlighted):
"He told me to do it or he'll kill me. I've got no choice." "He cannot kill you if you are already dead. Come over to the right side Draco, and we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine. What is more, I can send members of the Order to your mother tonight to hide her likewise. Nobody would be surprised that you had died in your attempt to kill me -- forgive me, but Lord Voldemort probably expects it. Nor would the Death Eaters be surprised that we had captured and killed your mother -- it is what they would do themselves, after all. Your father is safe at the moment in Azkaban...When the time comes we can protect him too. Come over to the right side, Draco...you are not a killer..." Malfoy stared at Dumbledore. (HBP US Edition pg 591)
Both of the ommissions are directly related, they are about having Draco appeared to have died, so it would seem the ommisions are intentional.
Did J.K. include those lines originally, and then decide she had gone too far and made the clue too transparent and obvious? Is it possible she decided to remove them, but the lines got accidentally included in the American edition anyway?
In dieser Theorie dreht es sich eingentlich darum warum Dumbi Draco "retten wollte" und ihm so sehr damit in die Enge trieb. Darin wird erklärt das im Buch "Quiddich im Wandel der Zeit" auch schon eine Passage enthält die sehr ident mit der Szene im Turm scheint. Will uns J.K.R in die Irre führen oder sieht sie selbst schon bestimmt das Dumbledore seinen Tod faken will? *Das ich auch meine Meihnung, das er dies am Ende von "The half Blood Prince" machte*
Weiters wird das werwunderbare fehlen eine Text passage im Englischen *sowie im Deutschen* buch drauf hingewiesen. Dieser Satzt ist aber wichtig um diese Theorie zu unterstreichen also im Vergleich setz ich jetzt die Englischen passagen und untermale farblich das gegensätzliche:
Zitat: "He told me to do it or he'll kill me. I've got not choice." "Come over to the right side, Draco, and we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine. What is more, I can send members of the Order to your mother tonight to hide her likewise. Your father is safe at the moment in Azkaban...when the time comes we can protect him too...come over to the right side, Draco...you are not a killer..." Malfoy stared at Dumbledore. (HBP UK Edition pg 552)
Zitat: "He told me to do it or he'll kill me. I've got no choice." "He cannot kill you if you are already dead. Come over to the right side Draco, and we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine. What is more, I can send members of the Order to your mother tonight to hide her likewise. Nobody would be surprised that you had died in your attempt to kill me -- forgive me, but Lord Voldemort probably expects it. Nor would the Death Eaters be surprised that we had captured and killed your mother -- it is what they would do themselves, after all. Your father is safe at the moment in Azkaban...When the time comes we can protect him too. Come over to the right side, Draco...you are not a killer..." Malfoy stared at Dumbledore. (HBP US Edition pg 591)
was ist nun klar? soll draco für Dubi sterben? und warum sind dieser Texte nur in Amerikanischn Version zu finden? Fragen über Fragen oder hat JKR sich in nachhinein doch gedacht wenn sie diese sätze lässt liegt irgendwas offen da, vl doch die Theorie das Dubledore alles wusste?
So ihr habt mit diesen schon ein Stücken arbeit aber der Rest folgt!
Was denkt ihr darüber?
Lg nata
Re: Warum Dumbeldore?
annybunny - 06.05.2006, 01:43
nata hat folgendes geschrieben: was ist nun klar? soll draco für Dubi sterben?
Ich denke nicht das Draco für Dumbi sterben soll, ich hab das eher so verstanden, das Dumbi Draco in sicherheit bringen will, indem er seinen Tod vortäuscht und ihn dann vom orden verstecken lässt.
Außerdem würde Dumbi niemals von jemandem verlangen für ihn zu sterben, das passt einfach nicht!
Re: Warum Dumbeldore?
nata - 06.05.2006, 02:58
Gut da sind wir einer meinung!
So dann weiter Theorien
Zitat: 3. Fawkes doesn't try to save Dumbledore
We've seen Fawkes come in at the last moment and save Harry's life in Chamber of Secrets:
As Harry trembled, ready to close his eyes if it turned, he saw what had distracted the snake. Fawkes was soaring around its head, and the basilisk was snapping furiously at him with fangs long and thin as sabers -- Fawkes dived. His long golden beak sunk out of sight and a sudden shower of dark blood spattered the floor. (CoS pg 318/234)
And he also saved Dumbledore in Order of the Phoenix:
... one more jet of green light had flown at Dumbledore from Voldemort's wand and the snake had struck -- Fawkes swooped down in front of Dumbledore, opened his beak wide, and swallowed the jet of green light whole. He burst into flame and fell to the floor, small, wrinkled and flightless. (OotP pg 814/719)
We know Fawkes was nearby the tower, as he shows up after Dumbledore's "death". So, why didn't Fawkes come to save Dumbledore this time?
I think the fact that he didn't makes it possible to believe that Dumbledore didn't want his life to be saved, and this supports the theory that it was Dumbledore's plan all along to "die" up on that tower that night.
In diesem Abschnitt geht es darum, warum Fawkes Dumbledore nicht gerettet hat, so wie er es bei Harry in der Kammer des Schreckens und bei Dubi in der Ministeriums Abteilung getan hat. Es wird vermutet das Dumbeldore wieder einmal geplant hat zu sterben! Meine Frage kann das sein?
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