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Qualität des Beitrags: Beteiligte Poster: zarathustra Forum: food4thought Forenbeschreibung: Ernährung einmal anders aus dem Unterforum: Hauptforum Antworten: 1 Forum gestartet am: Mittwoch 20.06.2007 Sprache: deutsch Link zum Originaltopic: Ist High Fat & Medium Carb am besten für Muskelaufbau? Letzte Antwort: vor 16 Jahren, 8 Monaten, 28 Tagen, 9 Stunden, 41 Minuten
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Re: Ist High Fat & Medium Carb am besten für Muskelaufbau?
zarathustra - 22.07.2007, 01:30Ist High Fat & Medium Carb am besten für Muskelaufbau?
Ich habe heute ein Forum wiederentdeckt, das ich lange Zeit nicht mehr besucht hatte. Ich war äusserst positiv überrascht, wie lebendig es ist und auf welch hohem Niveau die Diskussionen sich dort abspielen. Das scheint ja wirklich eines der derzeit spannendsten Ernährungsforen zu sein. Anyway, bei einer Diskussion, die ich las, ging es unter anderem um die ideale Ernährungsweise für den Muskelaufbau. Einer der "Gurus" dieses Forums, vertrat dabei folgende Meinung:
Zitat:
Re: [AV-Skeptics] Re: Bruce, your diet?
[jeff wissler]
> I definitely notice this. As a slow oxidizer, too
> much fat puts me to sleep fast. However, if I eat
> some quick carbs first like wild blueberries, honey,
> etc, I seem able to get more fat without the sleepy
> affect. I typically eat the fat and meat together
> since the fat helps the protein get utalized better.
I don't find meat that useful in the long-term. Saturated
fats and carbs are the key. And calories. I've gained 15#
of muscle in the last 6 months with no fat - waist is still
the same size, but arms, legs, and whole body are more
dense. What did I do? Ate lots of fruit or juice or honey,
followed/combined with some combination milk/cream/
half-and-half, and occasional coconut oil. I'm now at 254
lbs with 15% body fat and got rid of many problems that
had persisted with the primal diet, low-carb, and other
diets. For example, sitting in a chair too long used to be
uncomfortable, esp on the PD. Now I never get sore. No
constipation, either, despite little or no fiber intake on
many days. Stools are smaller and softer.
You see, eating the fruit or juice or honey causes a big
insulin spike that drives nutrients into the muscle. Then
the fats stabilize energy levels and allow all the protein
to be used for building instead of energy. You can take
your protein down low and still gain if you eat in a way
that optimizes hormone levels. The high-protein diets,
including the PD, raise your blood pressure and deplete
nutrients (including fat-soluble vitamins) and imbalance
hormones (including thyroid). AV's BP is 127/80, while
mine is 92/61. Who is aging faster? Whose body works
more efficiently? The benefits of Interval training and
periodic fasting, high saturated fat and moderate carb
clearly exceed the empty hype of raw.
My energy is perfectly steady. Never any lows or highs.
I don't get "eaten alive by bugs" as Mr. Planets predicts.
I don't have manic energy. I don't get cold. In fact, I'm
sometimes too warm unless I add more fruit or juice. I
never get sick. I keep the house as cool as possible in
winter. Oh, and no cavities after 6 months eating this
way. More than I can say for raw food.
Eat liver every week or two and forget the dogma of
meat and protein building muscles. Fats and sugars and
calories LET protein build muscles. Low-carb made me
weak and constipated, just like the PD.
Bruce
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AV-Skeptics/message/3191
und hier noch ein zweites Post zur gleichen These:
Zitat:
[bobbydabutcha]
> It has nothing to do with ego or
> insecurity,it just feels good to be muscular and mighty.Not much
> different from being exceptional good looking or with the finest
> threads,sure it's from a somewhat vain point of view- but it feels
> good and it adds to the enjoyment of life.
This is somewhat contradictory, to say it has nothing to do with ego
or insecurity, then to say it's from a somewhat vain point of view. I
understand what you mean, though. I used to be thin in high school,
but I have put on lots of muscle and size. The dogma of meat being
ideal muscle food is nonsense, IMO. Its protein is less efficient than
(cooked) eggs and dairy. We don't need to eat meat. Dairy and the
occasional eggs are adequate. Organ meats are more nutritious than
the muscle meats AV emphasizes. But we don't need them everyday
either. Some groups lived entirely on dairy. And BTW, they did not
consume it all raw. Many cooked or fermented dairy.
> I also notice that being thin,my neurotic systems came back,I a more
> prone to anxiety and nervous disorders.I was never this way when I
> was heavier set,not to mention I am such a waifer now lol
> I feel soo light and empty all the time.
I think that's why Anthony Colpo is so aggressive and tense. He needs
to give up the superficial ideal of thinness and find the weight where
he feels calm and balanced and peaceful. His body is more vulnerable
to toxins, because he has no fat to store them in. They go straight to
his organs. I predict he will end up with cancer, the way he's going -
along with Clarence Bass. Art De Vany will probably outlive both, but
his skin and hair do not look healthy IMO. I also noticed age spots in a
few of his pictures. But he is at least sturdy.
http://www.arthurdevany.com/IMG_3984.JPG
http://www.arthurdevany.com/IMG_4256.jpg
http://www.arthurdevany.com/archives/webstuff/images/DeVanyAlps.JPG
http://www.arthurdevany.com/archives/webstuff/images/IMG_3206.JPG
> If I had to choose between a
> long thin and gangly existance or a moderate lifespan while being
> strong and mighty,I'd pick the strong and mighty..
I don't think you have to choose between a long thin existence or a
short solid existence. You need to realize that fat provides the best
satiety value, long-term. You can space meals to control weight and
gain muscle or lose fat effortlessly. You and Jeff are always talking,
how you are ectomorph and nothing you do helps to gain weight. I
have pointed out a rather famous "ectomorph", who increased his
weight by 82%, while staying at 10% body fat or less. It is clear, on
that basis, that the weight gained was at least 90% muscle. Instead
you follow diets that are not consistent with that principle: eating
infrequent high-fat (saturated), moderate-carb, high-calorie meals.
Jeff said he weighed 140 with his diet of raw foods. What do you
weigh and what do you want to weigh? I want to be at least 215 or
more, like Art De Vany (6'1" and 215 lbs). I'm an inch or two taller,
and 15% fat, but my skin is young and moist and soft.
> I am young now, but not forever..I understand
> that but for the time being,I'd rather look good and feel good rather
> then be soo proactive (in my mind) about diet and 'health' that I
> don't even enjoy my life anymore.
I don't think you have to make a choice between things. I've given
plenty of evidence that we can look and feel great, while eating a
variety of delicious and satisfying foods. What I find works best is
high-saturated fat (50% or more) and low PUFAs (4% or less). These
are average values, so you can eat shellfish (which are very low in
fat) or lean fish (like whitefish) or even occasional fatty fish, just
moderate amounts. If you want to look and feel young for as long
as possible, avoid PUFAs as much as you can. It makes perfect on
the basis of biochemistry and abundant scientific evidence. More
omega-3 to "balance" too much omega-6 is like taking downers to
balance speed. Stop taking speed and you will spare yourself the
rampant inflammation, stress, and oxidative damage. Even if you
could balance omega-3 and omega-6 in the "recommended" ratio
(1:4 to 1:1), it will not protect you from oxidation and many side
effects like increased blood clotting or bleeding times, immuno-
suppression or auto-immunity, and reduced metabolism.
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fats-degeneration.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/nutrition/oils-in-context.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsaturated-oils.shtml
> I have been on the 'healthy' path for the last 2 1/2 years,though why
> is it that i have made improvements..overall I feel worse off then
> before? I am more neurotic and sickly looking then I was with my
> buffed up he-man physique,eventhough I am 'healthy' with my daily
> fasting,'rare meats' and avoidance of 'regular foods'.I would often
> ask myself what I was detoxing from..toxins or..food lol
I have suggested that you may not be eating enough and may need
to focus on more dense foods. Nobody here has suggested that we
are better off being small and thin. You're better off muscular and
moderately lean. The Warrior Diet advice is flawed in many ways,
but the basic idea is good. The Warrior Diet book is largely filler.
If you want to be muscular and healthy, eat large infrequent meals
with more dense foods and don't eat a lot of fiber or protein. 1/2
gram of protein per pound is adequate if you don't eat foods that
suppress proteni utilization (like grains, beans, famine vegetables,
raw eggs, PUFAs). Muscle will grow quite well with lots of simple
sugars and saturated fats, and some protein. Periodic fasting will
increase raise growth hormone and create other anabolic effects.
Eat more. And if you can't eat more of the food you eat, you may
need to eat more dense and palatable foods.
Bruce
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AV-Skeptics/message/3299
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