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Re: Abba V Beatles

DeltaGoodrem - 18.05.2007, 02:30
Abba V Beatles
hi. could someone please tell me how many records abba has sold in comparison to the beatles...

i found this on wikipedia (not the most trusted source) and was wondering how many around about each group has sold.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_selling_music_artists

isnt abba the second highest selling group behind the beatles??? i was just wondering if abba could catch up and sell more then the beatles so they could be crowned the best group ever and the number one selling group. face it...no other band is ever going to sell that many records

so maybe if abba released an album of unreleased songs or different versions of songs already released (ie with different lead). or if they just released a new album. surely which ever would sell really well. Agnetha likes recording but not touring so maybe they could just record. anyway this may be a long shot off (dont know how far behind they are to the beatles)

anyway i will keep dreaming because this is never going to happen :roll: can they just confirm they have broken up and are never going to do anything again? i hate having the slightest hope

Re: Abba V Beatles

agnetha_andrea - 18.05.2007, 02:37

Hi Delta,

You're right. ABBA is the second best-selling group in the history of music, but I doubt they can beat The Beatles, even if they release more compilations. The Beatles do that too (just see the 'Love' album which had a good sale record).
Anyway, for me The Beatles are far much better, altough I enjoy ABBA's music very much.

Love,
Andrea :wink:

Re: Abba V Beatles

DeltaGoodrem - 18.05.2007, 02:42

hi. Delta is just a singer i love :oops: mmmm i never have been big on the beatles. i only recall one of their songs.... plus abba is in the media here more than the beatles are. there are always specials on tv for abba but i have yet to see a beatles one. mmmm odd concidering they had 21 or so number one singles here

Re: Abba V Beatles

DeltaGoodrem - 18.05.2007, 02:45

mmm at least paul McCartney is still in the media for fans to enjoy....

Re: Abba V Beatles

ABBAnator - 18.05.2007, 03:12

The Beatles have sold over 1 Billion singles and albums, ABBA has sold about 470 Million singles and albums making them the second highest selling group and the third highest selling musical artists (Elvis being #1) in the world.

I have to take exception with total album sales making anyone the "best" though. The best group to any individual is the one they decide is their personal preference, period. because Elvis is the highest selling musical artist in the world does that make him the best? Not in my world. If ABBA someday becomes the highest selling group in the world, does that make them the best to people that like Rap music? I don't think so. The statistics are interesting but in the end pretty meaningless.

If ABBA only sold 10 albums in their history and I was the only one that bought all ten, they would still be the best in my mind because I have that preference for their music. I really don't understand why that is so important to you, what difference does it make? Do you need ABBA to be the highest selling group to validate your preference for their music?

Bruce :roll:

Re: Abba V Beatles

DeltaGoodrem - 18.05.2007, 03:25

no no no. i was just wondering because it could lead to abba releasing more stuff. but concidering they are miles off i dont think so. i thought they were closer than that. i just hate the beatles being labled 'the best group ever' when that is not the case. but i guess it is down to who you personally like. and for me it has to be abba

Re: Abba V Beatles

ABBAnator - 18.05.2007, 05:04

DeltaGoodrem wrote: i just hate the beatles being labled 'the best group ever' when that is not the case.
Who labels them "The best group ever"? Can you give some examples?

I've heard them referred to as "The most influential rock/pop group of all time" which is arguably true. They did in fact change the general direction of rock music, whether you like their compositions or not. But that has nothing to do with total world record sales whatsoever, those are apples and oranges.

I see no bearing that has on ABBA at all, it's a non-sequitur.

DeltaGoodrem wrote: face it...no other band is ever going to sell that many records
That's just silly. There is no way to tell whether some other band might sell more records in the future than the current leaders. Who knows, the Spice Girls might come out with an album tomorrow that takes the music world by storm and by the year 2050 sells 3 billion albums worldwide. (OK that's a ridiculous example but you understand my point. :wink: )

Sorry, I don't mean to pick on you but your statements don't make alot of sense to me.

Regards,
Bruce

Re: Abba V Beatles

Maxi-saxi - 18.05.2007, 07:00

There was a Article in the papers here recently about ABBA approaching 500 million in sales marks. With them still selling approx 4.5 to 5 million a year in sales to this day.

It centered also on the huge sucess of Mama Mia increasing interest and sales of ABBA.

I'll have to see if I can find out where it is and post it.

Maxi-saxi

Re: Abba V Beatles

Joe_Bear - 18.05.2007, 07:39

DeltaGoodrem,

If we take a more objective view it would more interesting a topic. The next thing after liking (or loving) the music of a your favorite band is to learn more about them. I think it is natural wanting to know about the members of the band, and what they released, their history. How many hit they had, how albums they shifted, and how much money they made is just a periphal part of the band's story. I don't see it as The Beatles versus ABBA, like it is a boxing match. I see it more like a relay race were The Bealtes pass the baton to ABBA, because after all they did influence B&B. (who knows maybe you'll change your mind about The Beatles and discover them for yourself and enjoy their music, and discover what B&B liked about them, too.)

http://www.zip.com.au/~callisto/abba.html

http://www.geocities.com/abba_maor/beatlesvsabba.html

Re: Abba V Beatles

Toni - 18.05.2007, 08:54

ABBAnator wrote:
If ABBA only sold 10 albums in their history and I was the only one that bought all ten, they would still be the best in my mind because I have that preference for their music.


The same goes for me, Bruce.

Yes, the Beatles are the best selling group, but it´s okay to me, because I love them, too. I would be proud if ABBA would be on Nr. 1, but it´s not that important to me.


Toni :D

Re: Abba V Beatles

onlyabba4me - 18.05.2007, 13:12

Hello,
ABBA have not sold anything like 350 Million, 370 Million, 470 Million, or 500 Million Records.

I, and several other people have carefully added up ABBA's Global Sales, on a Chart Site, & we get them on less than 200 Million Sales. 'Gold' is the only ABBA Album to have sold more than 20 Million Globally. The Beatles had several that did that.

ABBA do not manage to sell close to 300 Million due to them not being huge in the USA - they have sold about 15 Million USA Albums - 10.5 Million if you just add up their USA Sales Awards - which always gives too low a figure.

Likewise, The Beatles have not sold a Billion Records - people who study Global Charts, agree on that too - The Beatles Sale is hugely exaggerated.

However, they have certainly far outsold ABBA - to the extent that ABBA will never - ever - catch up. The Beatles have sold 169 Million ALBUMS in the USA alone - not even adding in Millions of USA Singles Sales.

In the UK, ABBA have sold 10 Million Singles, & about 15 Million to 16 Million Albums. The Beatles have sold 20 Million UK Singles, & an estimated 25 Million to 30 Million UK Albums. Their 17 Number 1 UK Singles spent 69 Weeks at Number 1, between them - ABBA managed 31 Weeks, with 9 Number 1 Singles. ABBA's 9 Number 1 Albums spent 55 Weeks at Number 1 - The Beatles 15 Number 1 Albums - 174 Weeks at Number 1.

In Australia, ABBA had 6 Number 1 Singles - The Beatles had 23 Number 1 Singles. The Beatles spent 101 weeks at Number 1 in the Australian Singles Chart - to 42 Weeks by ABBA.

In New Zealand, ABBA had 6 Number 1 Singles - 17 Weeks at Number 1. The Beatles had 15 Number 1 Singles - 27 Weeks at Number 1.

In Ireland, The Beatles had 13 Number 1 Singles - 48 weeks at Number 1. ABBA had 12 Number 1's - 41 Weeks at Number 1.

In Germany, The Beatles had 11 Number 1 Singles, to ABBA's 9. Plus 11 Number 1 Albums, to ABBA's 7. The Beatles spent 113 Weeks at Number 1 in the German Album Chart - to 45 Weeks for ABBA.

It is the same in most Countries. Only in Belgium did ABBA have more Number 1's than The Beatles - even Sweden gave The Beatles far more Number 1 Singles, than it gave to ABBA. The Beatles had 18 Swedish Number 1 Singles - ABBA had 3.

In The Netherlands, ABBA had 8 Number 1 Singles - The Beatles had 21. ABBA spent 24 Weeks at Number 1 - to The Beatles 67 Weeks.

In the USA, The Beatles had 20 Number 1 Singles, & spent 59 Weeks at Number 1. ABBA had 1 Number 1 Single - 1 Week at Number 1. In the USA Album Chart, The Beatles had 19 Number 1 Albums - 132 Weeks at Number 1. ABBA never got higher than Number 14 in the USA Album Chart - 'The Album', in 1978.

In Canada, The Beatles had 23 Number 1 Singles, & spent 74 Weeks at Number 1. ABBA had 1 Number 1 - 2 Weeks at Number 1. (It was 'Dancing Queen'. In another Canadian Chart it reached Number 2).

The Beatles had 21 Number 1 Singles in Norway - ABBA had 2 - 'Waterloo' & 'Dancing Queen'. The Beatles spent 97 Singles Weeks at Number 1 - to 20 Weeks by ABBA. The Beatles had 12 Number 1 Albums in Norway, & spent 182 Weeks at Number 1. ABBA - 9 Number 1 Albums, & 66 Weeks at Number 1.

So, The Beatles are so far ahead of ABBA in Global Charts, & Sales, that ABBA can never catch up - it is impossible.

Re: Abba V Beatles

DESIGNER - 18.05.2007, 15:04

Hi all, Brue is right and I fully agree with him. No buddy can compeer the to groups in any way, only because they are so totally different, ABBA has their place and The Beatles have their place, same as anyother group.

Re: Abba V Beatles

ABBAnator - 18.05.2007, 17:08

onlyabba4me wrote: ABBA have not sold anything like 350 Million, 370 Million, 470 Million, or 500 Million Records.

I, and several other people have carefully added up ABBA's Global Sales, on a Chart Site, & we get them on less than 200 Million Sales.

Likewise, The Beatles have not sold a Billion Records - people who study Global Charts, agree on that too - The Beatles Sale is hugely exaggerated.
I made a faux pas in my previous post, I meant to say 370 not 470 million for ABBA, but it seems you have done far more research than I (I think I "Googled" and spent about 2 minutes on my research :P ) so I will defer to your numbers. :wink:

Curious though, where did Universal come up with 360 Million worldwide record sales figure when they awarded that plaque to Frida and B&B at the 5th Mamma Mia! anniversary show in 2004?

Also, do your totals figures include vinyl, cassette and CD sales combined? Albums and singles?

onlyabba4me wrote: In the USA, The Beatles had 20 Number 1 Singles, & spent 59 Weeks at Number 1. ABBA had 1 Number 1 Single - 1 Week at Number 1. In the USA Album Chart, The Beatles had 19 Number 1 Albums - 132 Weeks at Number 1. ABBA never got higher than Number 14 in the USA Album Chart - 'The Album', in 1978.
That's interesting, so even though Dancing Queen was the number one hit in the US and was featured on 'Arrival', 'The Album' was actually the highest charting album.

It sounds like accurate total worldwide record sales figures are hard to determine as record companies tend to exaggerate and manipulate figures for their own purposes.

Some interesting statistics in any case. :wink:

Bruce

Re: Abba V Beatles

iancee - 19.05.2007, 00:39

These sales figures when calculated are usually expressed as "units". A unit can be anything - a full length album, a single, or something else completely different.

For example, when Atlantic Records in the USA made their calculation that ABBA was "the biggest selling band of all time" in May 1978 (for their self-proclaimed ABBA Month in the USA), their unit was a single (i.e. 2 songs), so a 10 track album equalled 5 units.

It's media reporting and general misunderstanding that converts these figures to "albums" or "records". Maybe ABBA really have sold 360 million units. Maybe The Beatles really have sold 1 billion units. But unless the unit is defined, we'll never know for sure.

P.S. The Beatles released almost twice as many studio albums as ABBA.

Re: Abba V Beatles

Maxi-saxi - 19.05.2007, 04:26

Well I beg to differ,

why would the Record Industry present ABBA with an award for sales of 360 million then!

It's part of the Super Trouper Documentary They would not do that unless they were pretty sure of sales.


Maxi-saxi

Re: Abba V Beatles

Joe - 19.05.2007, 11:14

iancee wrote: their unit was a single (i.e. 2 songs), so a 10 track album equalled 5 units
Really? :shock: I knew about the doubtful sales numbers, but this... "Don't trust any statistics you haven't faked yourself!" Still their methods of counting must vary very much, if not, actual sales would be very, very low compared to the claimed sales.

At least I know what I have paid for myself! :D

Joachim

Re: Abba V Beatles

sickandtiredofeverything - 19.05.2007, 12:09

ABBAnator wrote: Who labels them "The best group ever"? Can you give some examples?

It's all but universally accepted that The Beatles were 'the best group ever'. No examples are necessary. They belong to a small group of artists whose dominance of the field is held by general consensus. Shakespeare enjoys the same when it comes to playwriting. But even Mozart doesn't lead his field like The Beatles do.

Examples, if you really insist, actually include just about all their competition for the coveted title. You'll hear absolutely no arguments from U2 or, for that matter, certain Mrs Ulvaeus and Andersson.

Re: Abba V Beatles

iancee - 19.05.2007, 14:47

[quote="Maxi-saxi"]why would the Record Industry present ABBA with an award for sales of 360 million then!Maxi-saxi[/quote]

The "record industry" didn't present that "award" - Pete Waterman did on behalf of Universal Music UK, to make a media event. There is no recognised award anywhere for sales figures like that.

Re: Abba V Beatles

Maxi-saxi - 20.05.2007, 05:03

iancee wrote: Maxi-saxi wrote: why would the Record Industry present ABBA with an award for sales of 360 million then!Maxi-saxi

The "record industry" didn't present that "award" - Pete Waterman did on behalf of Universal Music UK, to make a media event. There is no recognised award anywhere for sales figures like that.

I still find this some what hard to believe. Surly The Music Industry will have some Idea of how many Records Groups as ABBA have sold.

They can't be that reckless. These numbers have been quoted in the media for years. Someone somewhere must know nearer the exact number.

Maxi-saxi

Re: Abba V Beatles

platobird - 20.05.2007, 06:26

Wow! Big numbers. :) , But what do I care about milllions or billions; I have about 30 ABBA CD albums, 15 Agnetha CDs and 1 Frida Album (soon to be 2). 8) :wink: I love them all and I play them all, and that's all that counts. 8)

Somewhere (maybe the attic) there are some Beatle vinyls and maybe an 8-track tape or two, and these are part of the Beatle sales figures. I haven't played them in 30 years or more so what do the numbers really mean? :wink:

Re: Abba V Beatles

bruser - 20.05.2007, 08:38

you are all banging your heads against a brick wall, i don't think we will ever know who sold more than the other.I am quite happy with my abba music,not to bad from a group who hardly ever toured.

Re: Abba V Beatles

drimnagh - 20.05.2007, 13:39

There really is no such thing as the 'best' anything because someone will always have their own emotions colouring their viewpoint, which is perfectly natural. To me, ABBA were the best group ever to walk this planet and that will remain so in my mind forever When I hear their sound it is like 'coming home' to me. Agnetha's voice strikes a chord within my soul that I really can't describe but it makes me more happy than perhaps any other thing in my life. Someone else will have that same subjective emotion coursing through their veins about The Beatles or whoever so it really isn't a question of worldwide sales. There's plenty of dross out there that has sold zillions of 'units' (LOL) but that doesn't mean it has any intrinsic worth. At least not to me. It's whatever floats your boat, gets your mo-jo going...

Joe

Re: Abba V Beatles

onlyabba4me - 20.05.2007, 19:23

Hello,
There is no doubt - at all - that The Beatles have outsold ABBA. They have sold 169 Million Albums in the USA alone - ABBA have not sold that many in the entire World. (I, & others, estimate that ABBA have sold between 104 Million & 108 Million Albums, Globally, & about 80 Million to 85 Million Singles. That's 184 Million to 193 Million ABBA Records sold Globally - as I said, The Beatles sold 169 Million Albums in the USA alone - and Millions upon Millions of Singles, on Top of that. THEN you add in Beatles Sales from outside the USA....).

Also, I am not saying that The Beatles were better than ABBA, (or the other way around). I am merely pointing out that The Beatles have far outsold ABBA. There is no question of this. It is a very obvious fact.

Looking at Global Charts - and I have many Chart Books, I would say that for every Record, (Single Album, & Cassette), that ABBA sold, The Beatles have sold 3. The Beatles have sold about 600 Million Records - far less than the 1,000 Million claimed for them.

And it is only because ABBA have sold a lot of Records that they get TV Documentaries, & Tribute Acts etc. Had they not sold many Records at all, the UK Media - & the World Media - would not be very much interested in ABBA - at all.

So those who say that ABBA's Sales do not matter - that they would still be Fans if ABBA had only sold a few Million Records - are missing the point. There would be very little interest in ABBA, if they had not been huge all over the World - the Global Media does not pay any attention to Acts that are losers.....

Nor would WE be HERE, had ABBA never sold almost 200 Million Records - for had ABBA not been as big as they were, every ABBA Site on the Internet would have died out Years ago - as there would not have been any DVD's & TV Shows to keep us interested - nor even a 'Mamma Mia!' Musical......

That is a fact, I am afraid.....So ABBA's Sales HAVE mattered!

Re: Abba V Beatles

ABBAnator - 20.05.2007, 20:01

Joe wrote: Really? :shock: I knew about the doubtful sales numbers, but this... "Don't trust any statistics you haven't faked yourself!"
Very clever Joachim, I like that ... :wink:

Joe wrote: At least I know what I have paid for myself! :D
Indeed, I know for a fact they have sold at least 20 "units" because I have them (vinyl, cassette and CD) in my personal inventory. :D

Bruce

Re: Abba V Beatles

philzone - 20.05.2007, 21:16

we've been down this road before. they are both the best at what they do. i think the last Beatles vs. ABBA thread had us comparing who could do the other ones's songs better. Beatles to me are so overexposed and overheard on the radio still. ABBA , to me, still have gems for me to find or rediscover.

phil

Re: Abba V Beatles

Maxi-saxi - 21.05.2007, 05:06

I know they are both the best at what they did. I understand that. My point is surely Record company's must know what numbers they sold. I mean they must know how many Albums were pressed in the factory's and sold in the stores.

I adore both ABBA and the Beatles, to me you can't compare them as they were in different times and different Musically.

Maxi-saxi

Re: Abba V Beatles

Joe - 21.05.2007, 11:05

In their own interest they should know the true sales numbers of course, but to me there are just 2 questions about it (not only regarding ABBA):

1. Do/did they also tell the right numbers? Stretching the truth for marketing or other reasons really isn't surprising.

2. In ABBA's active time there were so many different releases from continent to continent, from country to country with far more companies being involved than today. Room enough for fakes, simple errors or misunderstandings/misinterpretations by and within the companies.

Again: personally I don't care about it. Of course higher sales increase the chance for new releases, but I've survived the 80's and 90's until the ABBA revival and still was glad about hearing what I had at home. In addition assuming that not only ABBA's sales numbers might be doubtful ABBA still would be a mega-seller and by "Mamma Mia!" (though I don't like it) a basic interest has been established for quite some time anyway.

Joachim

Re: Abba V Beatles

drimnagh - 21.05.2007, 14:37

I might not be here on this site but I would still be a fan- THAT was my point. I am a fan of many singers and groups who have litlle recognition or sales, much less websites dedicated to them and yet I am still a fan. So.. IMO, sales (or rather the amount of them; obviously SOME units need to have found their way to our greedy little paws) DO NOT matter! (If you are a fan, you are a fan, that's the end of it. All this talk of figures and units really gets on my nerves- as though that is all that counts ultimately).

I also think it pointless and indeed ludicrous to compare two groups who were so very different. They existed in a different time frame and had female vocalists as the lead singers (in the main). You could say ABBA were 'feminine' perhaps whereas The Beatles were 'just' :lol: a boy band... LOL. Steady now, chaps- don't tear me to pieces for that quip! :wink:

Joe

Re: Abba V Beatles

onlyabba4me - 22.05.2007, 17:40

But, my point remains - had ABBA not become big Internationally, it is doubtful if many 2007 Web Sites would be dedicated to them - perhaps 1 or 2, but nothing like the number that exist because they became huge Internationally. (And most 2007 Fans would never have been ABBA Fans - ever).

It is no use anyone claiming that they'd still be an ABBA Fan had ABBA never been big. The truth is that very few ABBA Fans would ever have heard of ABBA, had they only had Hits in Sweden - for example.

It is only because they sold a lot of Records Internationally that so many ABBA Fans exist at the present time. (A very obvious fact).

So, their Sales do matter - we would not be here discussing anything, (at all), about ABBA had they only been a small success as a Group.

Nor would TV Stations around the world bother to show ABBA on TV - why would they, if ABBA had not been a Big Selling Group? (Likewise for Radio Stations, & Tribute Acts - few would bother with ABBA, had they never become so big).

As to anyone not liking people discussing ABBA's Sales - why contribute to a discussion on their Sales, then? Why not simply ignore it?

I ignore Internet discussions that I am not interested in - I see no point in going into a Cricket or Football Discussion, (for example), & saying that people talking about how successful, (or not), this or that Cricket or Football Team is:, 'Gets on my nerves'.

If people want to discuss ABBA's Record Sales, then why shouldn't they? Live & let live.....Likewise, if they want to compare ABBA's Sales to The Beatles Sales.....

Re: Abba V Beatles

Anonymous - 22.05.2007, 17:45

OnlyABBA4me sounds familiar. I think you have written about these figures in another list for ages. Gosh, would you please ride another horse for a change?

Anne :roll: :roll:

Re: Abba V Beatles

johnny59 - 22.05.2007, 18:19

Sinikka wrote: OnlyABBA4me sounds familiar. I think you have written about these figures in another list for ages. Gosh, would you please ride another horse for a change?

Anne :roll: :roll:


Well, Anne, in defense of OnlyABBA4me I must point out that the author of this topic asked exactly for "these figures". (Quote: hi. could someone please tell me how many records abba has sold in comparison to the beatles... ")

Now, I have no idea if OnlyABBA4me's sources are reliable enough so that his numbers can be taken as factual or if they are complete nonsense. I admit that personally I am not especially interested in that topic. To be honest, I couldn't care less.

But who am I to tell what is interesting and what is not. So I guess it's as always. People who find it interesting riding this horse, go ahead.

I will go to the favourite Agnetha pic thread instead and enjoy myself. Although I am sure some people would like to tell me "Gosh, would you please ride another horse for a change?" :rotfl:

Re: Abba V Beatles

Visitor1982 - 22.05.2007, 18:36

In The Netherlands ABBA did outsell The Beatles. Although The Beatles had 16 number ones in Holland and ABBA had eight, ABBA sold FAR more albums compared to The Beatles in The Netherlands and albumsales is what really counts.

I think ABBA could have sold 250 million - 300 million records. Fact is, we don't know the sales of most countries. ABBA were big in Africa, South-East Asia, the former Soviet Union, South America... Places where The Beatles weren't very succesful.

I'm sure that in the 'western world' The Beatles sold more records, especially in the USA and UK... But if you count all those other places...

But to be honest, I don't believe in calculating the exact amount of records that were sold. Nobody really knows and it's all just a guess.

A very wild guess.

Marnix

Re: Abba V Beatles

ABBAnator - 22.05.2007, 18:57

onlyabba4me wrote: It is no use anyone claiming that they'd still be an ABBA Fan had ABBA never been big. The truth is that very few ABBA Fans would ever have heard of ABBA, had they only had Hits in Sweden - for example.

It is only because they sold a lot of Records Internationally that so many ABBA Fans exist at the present time. (A very obvious fact).
Your point about not being a fan if ABBA had only been exposed in Sweden is a valid one. Certainly in my case (I'm from the US) if they had not been exposed internationally I would never have even heard of them.

I have to take exception to the second paragraph in this quote however. Becoming a fan of ABBA is not exclusively tied to total record sales. Speaking from personal experience it wasn't any kind of record sales at all that started my interest in ABBA, it was an appearance on American Bandstand that I saw as a 9-year old boy where my "fandom" was sparked.

Also, the argument that total record sales is what brought them to the US to appear on American Bandstand (an indirect record sales influence) connot be made either. ABBA's winning the ESC in 74 is what initially interested the president of Atlantic Records and the promoter Sid Bernstein to "coax" Stig Anderson into bringing them to the US.

The argument could be made that "future" record sales is what brought them to do these shows in the US, but that is a different argument, the one you are making is that "existing" record sales is why everyone is a fan of ABBA. Which doesn't make alot of sense really because if no one was a fan previously they wouldn't have bought the record to begin with. It's sort of a "chicken and egg" scenario.

onlyabba4me wrote: So, their Sales do matter - we would not be here discussing anything, (at all), about ABBA had they only been a small success as a Group.
What does existing ABBA forums have to do with being a fan or not? I'm a fan of Gerry Rafferty, a musician that didn't really sell too many records (a small success) and doesn't have any fan forums that I'm aware of, so that argument is a non-sequitur.

Although your assertion that the many record sales that ABBA had is a large reason for a large fan base is a valid one, I think you read too much into it. I think you confuse "exposure" with total record sales. Although a record sale is definitely a form of exposure, they are not mutually exclusive.

onlyabba4me wrote: As to anyone not liking people discussing ABBA's Sales - why contribute to a discussion on their Sales, then? Why not simply ignore it?

I ignore Internet discussions that I am not interested in - I see no point in going into a Cricket or Football Discussion, (for example), & saying that people talking about how successful, (or not), this or that Cricket or Football Team is:, 'Gets on my nerves'.

If people want to discuss ABBA's Record Sales, then why shouldn't they? Live & let live.....Likewise, if they want to compare ABBA's Sales to The Beatles Sales.....
Although I generally agree with Joe's (drimnagh) point that he was making about being a fan (to a degree I've been making the same point), I have to agree with the above quote.

Regards,
Bruce

Re: Abba V Beatles

aggie-fan - 22.05.2007, 22:36

well, there is a abba vs beatles thing going on in my family lol. me, who loves abba, and my brother who loves the beatles.. dont really go together very well. yes i know the beatles out sold abba by alot. so yeah.. it doesn't make them better, abba did sell tons and tons of records. so i think both groups did very well. and both groups music will be playing for years to come.


aggie-fan

Re: Abba V Beatles

platobird - 23.05.2007, 01:14

johnny59 wrote: I will go to the favourite Agnetha pic thread instead and enjoy myself. Although I am sure some people would like to tell me "Gosh, would you please ride another horse for a change?"
Well, I'm going to tell Agnetha that you consider her a "horse to be ridden". I'm sure she will reject you and go with me. :rotfl2:

Aggie and I both consider this thread to be boring, and we're going to surf the Anni-Frid forum. Join us there. :wink:

Re: Abba V Beatles

Joe - 23.05.2007, 02:02

onlyabba4me wrote: It is only because they sold a lot of Records Internationally that so many ABBA Fans exist at the present time. (A very obvious fact).
Is this really your big point that a group gets more popular the more records are sold? And vice versa? Ok then, that's self-evident to me.

But regarding ABBA that only would be important if there was a doubt about ABBA being successful. We aren't talking or speculating, whether ABBA had sold 1 or 10 million albums. The question is about how many hundreds of millions and the relation to the Beatles! So to me in this dicussion it always was a given fact that ABBA was and is popular and a big seller.

Well, I don't know whom exactly you were referring to, but anyway, just to clarify my point of view:

I just say that if there wouldn't have been an ABBA revival in the 90's, because ABBA had sold 100 million less I still would have been interested in ABBA, sometimes more and sometimes less. I'm somehow interested to hear some information about sales numbers (especially in different countries) and the marketing politics of record companies (that's why I might take the freedom to decide to stay in this thread), but the figures discussed with ABBA are of a dimension that ABBA's popularity and success could never be doubtful (that's why I might take the freedom to decide to leave this thread).

If the Beatles or Elvis or whoever have sold more, I may not understand their popularity, but there's no problem for me (some reasons mentioned here for their higher sales make sense anyway). The relation to ABBA is nice to know, but if it's 5:1, 3:1 or 2:1 there will always remain a huge commercial success for all of them. I will not like any of them more or less and I don't label any pop group as "good" or "the best" by their commercial success. It's rather a game to me (as some other things about ABBA as well), I'm not emotionally involved at all, nor can I discuss certain figures.

Joachim



PS:
platobird wrote: Aggie and I both consider this thread to be boring, and we're going to surf the Anni-Frid forum. Join us there.
Sorry, but if there's one thing which onlyabba4me is right about then that there's no sense in writing silly things in a thread you seem not to be interested in at all - meant as joke or not.

Re: Abba V Beatles

johnny59 - 23.05.2007, 08:47

PPS:

Plato, wash your mouth out and stop the slobbering, old man. :axe:

Re: Abba V Beatles

Maxi-saxi - 23.05.2007, 09:03

johnny59 wrote: PPS:

Plato, wash your mouth out and stop the slobbering, old man. :axe:

You crack me up Johnny :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Maxi-saxi

Re: Abba V Beatles

drimnagh - 23.05.2007, 16:53

I can't ignore anything; I have to give my five cents worth, get on my soapbox, have a good old rant! :wink:

Thankful for Bruce on here and I really liked Joe Bear's analogy of The Beatles passing the baton to ABBA rather than as a boxing match- that is so 8) and apt.

Joe

Re: Abba V Beatles

drimnagh - 24.05.2007, 14:48

platobird wrote: Aggie and I both consider this thread to be boring, and we're going to surf the Anni-Frid forum. Join us there.
Sorry, but if there's one thing which onlyabba4me is right about then that there's no sense in writing silly things in a thread you seem not to be interested in at all - meant as joke or not.[/quote]

Point taken but I really think some people could take a chill pill- there's nothing wrong with taking a light hearted swipe at a topic and I thought Platobird's comment was funny. Abusive or obscene is unacceptable but I really see no probs with the odd quip- it lightens things.

Cheers,

Joe :wink:

Re: Abba V Beatles

onlyabba4me - 24.05.2007, 16:02

The fact remains that had ABBA not been an International success, then MOST, (not all - but MOST), ABBA Fans, outside Sweden, would not only never have heard of them, but there would not be anywhere near as much Internet discussion about them, in 2007.

I know several Fans who only even became ABBA Fans in 1992 - due to 'Gold'. There would never have been a 'Gold' CD, had ABBA not been Internationally successful. For a start, Polydor would not have bought the rights to ABBA's Back Catalogue, had ABBA only been a success in Sweden.

Likewise, the numerous DVD's that have come out, with ABBA's Videos, & TV Performances on them, would never have existed had ABBA only been a success in Sweden.

The DVD's, the 'Gold' CD etc., Polydor, (now Universal), being so interested - it all has happened because ABBA had Hits all over the World.

Had they merely TRIED to be an International success - by appearing on a few TV Shows, outside Sweden - with no Hits, (or few Hits), to show for it - then 'Gold' would still not have been created, & released. (Not outside Sweden, anyhow).

I am aware that some Acts do not have gigantic International success, but still have Web Sites - Gerry Rafferty has not been big since about 1978. However, Acts who did not become Internationally - or consistently - big, do not have, a 'Gold' CD, that gets released everywhere, & sells 26 Million copies.

ABBA managed it because they had so many Hits Globally - take those Hits away, & 'Gold' would never have existed. You cannot have Hits unless you sell Records. You do not get TV Specials in the UK - as a Pop Act - unless you were huge in the UK. ABBA have had several TV Specials - because they were huge here. It is the same in Germany, & Australia etc.

There is no escaping it - it all comes back to ABBA selling Millions of Records. Without that, the ABBA CD's, & DVD's, that have been released since 1992, would be far, far fewer in number - and that means Fans losing interest much faster. It is all connected.

Also, comparing The Beatles to ABBA etc happens all the time - in the Statistics Sections in UK Chart Books, & so on. I also have a Dutch Chart Book that compares Acts, too. It does not matter if they were not the same kind of Acts - all that matters is if they had Hits, & then you can work out who had the Most Top 10's, & so on.

In the UK, a Magazine called 'Chart Watch' gives Points to every Position, (Weekly), of every Hit Single, & Album, that every Act has had, since November 1952. (Albums since July 1956).

Here are their Top Scoring Acts, (UK Charts), of each Decade:,

1950's - Elvis Presley
1960's - The Beatles
1970's - ABBA
1980's - Madonna
1990's - Celine Dion

Robbie Williams leads in the 2000's - so far.

ABBA would not have 'Won' in the 1970's, had they remained merely a success in Sweden. And, they 'Won' the 1970's, due to having UK Hit Singles & Albums - and that involves selling a lot of Records.

Again, we see that Sales matter, to ABBA's Legacy & Fame.....It is pointless for anyone to make out that ABBA's Sales make no difference - that they'd still have many, many Fans in 2007, had they only sold a fraction of their real Sales..... As I said - had ABBA sold far less Records, there would never have been a 'Gold' CD.....(It would probably have only been released in Sweden - if at all).

Re: Abba V Beatles

platobird - 24.05.2007, 16:57

onlyabba4me wrote: The fact remains that had ABBA not been an International success, then MOST, (not all - but MOST), ABBA Fans, outside Sweden, would not only never have heard of them, but there would not be anywhere near as much Internet discussion about them, in 2007.
Your logic is circular. You say if ABBA were not a success, they would not be a success. :roll:

You're correct that if ABBA had not been an international success, then I would never had heard of them, and I wouldn't be writing this on an ABBA fan site. But I wouldn't miss anything, because if I never heard of them, I wouldn't care, and I'd probably on a fan site for another group or singer (I also belong to the Mandy Moore fan site :kiss: ).

Nevertheless, I did hear of ABBA, for whatever reason, and I enjoy their music, and that's all that means anything now - the numbers don't affect my appreciation of the music. Perhaps it's good they were a success because they made lots of money, and maybe they'll give some to me. :rotfl2:

Re: Abba V Beatles

Joe - 24.05.2007, 18:44

onlyabba4me wrote: The fact remains that had ABBA not been an International success, then MOST, (not all - but MOST), ABBA Fans, outside Sweden, would not only never have heard of them, but there would not be anywhere near as much Internet discussion about them, in 2007. [and so on]
Since you don't tell whom or what you actually are referring to in your "answers" I don't know if you care about anyone's or my words at all.

I have tried twice to say that to me there's no doubt that sales and popularity are important to become famous and to increase the chances for new releases at any time. There's no big deal with that fact!

Platobird and Joe, I really have to apologize, it has become boring. I will look for something interesting or funny elsewhere.

Goodbye.
Joachim

Re: Abba V Beatles

drimnagh - 25.05.2007, 15:30

I've appreciated onlyabba4me's comments and factual stuff, it has opened up my eyes! He certainly knows his stuff! And of course he is quite correct when he points out that the original poster asked about sales figures, re: ABBA/The Beatles so he is really only responding to that! Unlike chaps like me who can veer all over the shop on occasion! :oops: :stupid:

I simply have to say that even if ABBA had not had 'lots' of fans, (or indeed lots of success) they WOULD STILL have had me as one of them, that's all. To go all cosmic for a minute, I think it was fate or destiny. :love4:

Joe ("Yes, I've got it! I've had the last word!" He he :rotfl2:)

:wink:

Re: Abba V Beatles

Charles - 26.05.2007, 22:14

Do legal DOWNLOADS count too?

Every once in a while, Abba's among the ITunes top 100 downloads, both tracks and albums. "The definitive collection" has been in the downloaded albums top ten after the airing of the "All time greatest hits" show a few weeks ago (may 2007).

I'm pretty sure that Abba outnumbers The Beatles in The Netherlands when it comes to downloads.

But of course it's not a race or competition.

I just wanted to point out that downloads become more and more important. And I wonder if there are download statistics...

Charles

Re: Abba V Beatles

Lutfi - 26.05.2007, 23:07

Hi Deltagoodream

ABBA music to be still listen by peoples and will listen.But Beathles time music closed ! Who sale more is not important, Beathels have one song yestarday wich will stay,other Beathels song to be forget by people.
Many beautiful song and music have on the world,but more of them is listen by little peoples. Good is good forver.

Kind Regards
Lütfi

Re: Abba V Beatles

Maxi-saxi - 28.05.2007, 04:20

onlyabba4me

You have raised some very good points there.

Maxi-saxi

Re: Abba V Beatles

Joe_Bear - 28.05.2007, 05:18

onlyabba4me wrote:
Here are their Top Scoring Acts, (UK Charts), of each Decade:,

1950's - Elvis Presley
1960's - The Beatles
1970's - ABBA
1980's - Madonna
1990's - Celine Dion

Robbie Williams leads in the 2000's - so far.




The Spice Girls vs Celine Dion
I don't who gross more in album sales or who has a bigger fan base or who's music is taken more seriously but as far as chart toppers the Spice Girls had more#1 hits then Celine Dion in the Nineties

And Westlife has more #1 hits then Robbie Williams in the Aughts. :P :P :P

Re: Abba V Beatles

onlyabba4me - 29.05.2007, 00:24

Hello,
Sinnika, some people here were wondering if The Beatles had outsold ABBA - I gave lots of facts & figures to show that they certainly did not.

You say that I have done such a thing elsewhere on the Internet, (as if it were a crime!), & ask can't I 'ride another horse'.

I am trying to work out what you mean.

1) That I should I tell lies, & pretend that ABBA outsold The Beatles - when it is obviously not true?

2) That I hand all The Beatles Statistics, (Charts), to ABBA, & ABBA's to The Beatles - to make ABBA look bigger?

3) That I am not to join in a Beatles Vs ABBA Debate, as it annoys people like you?

Well?!

Personally, I feel that if I did any of the above 3, I would not be 'riding another horse' - I would be riding a Donkey, or a Mule!

If you do not like Beatles Vs ABBA Chart Statistics - in a Beatles Vs ABBA Thread - then don't read my Posts!

See the Debate on ABBA's Record Sales, at UKMIX:,

http://www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24971

There is an Anti ABBA guy there - Nelson - & I have openly disagreed with him many, many times - for anyone who thinks I am not an ABBA Fan, but only someone who wants to make their Sales & success look low.....(Nelson does - I do not. I am merely interested in the truth).

I contribute to the ABBA Sales Debate as Zeus555.

And, on The Beatles Sales:,

http://www.ukmix.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=26913


Those who think that ABBA sold far more Millions of Albums than the under 110 Million that I, (and others), have come up with, should realise that the first Studio Album that ABBA became truly huge with Internationally was 'Arrival' - and they only had 4 more Studio Albums from that point on. In other words, only in 1976 did they become truly huge Globally, & their last Studio Album was in December 1981. There were only 5 Years of truly huge Global ABBA Studio Albums. ('ABBA' was big in Australia, New Zealand, & several other Countries - but not in the UK, Ireland, USA, or Canada. It was only with 'Arrival', that ABBA had a much bigger Studio Album in far more Countries....).

As a contrast, The Beatles became Globally huge, with Studio Albums, in early 1964 - and they did not split up until 1970. So, they were on a huge level for a longer time than ABBA - as well as releasing more Studio Albums in that time. They would sometimes put 2 Studio Albums out in the same Year - ABBA never did that. No wonder The Beatles sold more, in the end. Then there was the fact that the USA was crazy about them - it never was about ABBA. So ABBA have sold about 15 Million USA Albums, & The Beatles have sold 169 Million USA Albums.

Re: Abba V Beatles

onlyabba4me - 29.05.2007, 00:56

Hello,
Visitor1982, it is not possible to tell if ABBA sold more Albums in The Netherlands than The Beatles.

It is not a level playing field. The Dutch Album Chart did not start until December 1969! As The Beatles began having Number 1 Albums - all over Europe - in early 1964, it is certain that they were selling them in the Netherlands too - as they were certainly having huge Hit Singles in The Netherlands at the time - there was a Dutch Singles Chart.

So, there was no Dutch Album Chart for The Beatles to have Hits in, in, in 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, & almost all of 1969 - and the very first Dutch Album Chart Number 1 was 'Abbey Road' - by The Beatles. So, goodness knows how many Number 1 Albums The Beatles would have had, had there had there been an Album Chart from 1964 to 1969

Of course ABBA have more Dutch Number 1 Albums - they had their entire Career when the Dutch Album Chart existed - so, they had their 8th Number 1 Dutch Album in 1999. (Officially it is 7 Number 1 Dutch ABBA Albums, as a 1984 Number 1 - 'From ABBA With Love' - was only Number 1 in some kind of Compilation Chart, really. Apparently, it was not able to enter the main Dutch Album Chart).

We may as well say that The Beatles, & ABBA, could not sell Albums in Switzerland, during their Careers - as the Swiss Album Chart did not start until 6th November 1983! So, neither Group looks very big, (not with Albums, anyhow), if you look at their Swiss Album Chart Hits. (If you give Points to each Weekly Position in the Swiss Album Chart, ABBA are only the 100th All Time Album Act in their Charts - The Beatles are not in the Top 100 at all - because the Swiss LP Chart did not exist when either Group were together....). ABBA are the 6th All Time Swiss Singles Group. The Beatles are only 78th - as the Swiss Singles Chart only started in January 1968.

It is only fair to compare Acts in a Countries Charts, if those Charts existed for both Acts - for much of The Beatles Career there was no Dutch Album Chart.....
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