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Qualität des Beitrags: Beteiligte Poster: Skirn - Viziroth - tegeus-Cromis - wizard.dark - Lyncor Forum: Samurai Legends Forenbeschreibung: Official forums aus dem Unterforum: Strategy section Antworten: 7 Forum gestartet am: Mittwoch 06.10.2004 Sprache: englisch Link zum Originaltopic: Skirn's Ronin Guide Letzte Antwort: vor 17 Jahren, 1 Monat, 26 Tagen, 18 Stunden, 52 Minuten
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Re: Skirn's Ronin Guide
Skirn - 26.02.2007, 06:30Skirn's Ronin Guide
Brief Overview
This is something I’d like everyone to keep in mind while reading this guide. The guide is based on my own playstyle, that does NOT mean anything is absolute, if you think there’s a better way to do things, or if you have a completely different way of playing Ronin that does not make you wrong. By all means, if you want to argue with me, argue. I like disagreements.
Now that I got that all nice and said, allow me to explain something I feel about the Ronin: He is not a laner, and his damage is no where near as insane as the Ninjas. He will have trouble facing someone in a fair one on one duel if both are of equal skill. What I feel the Ronin is made for is team attacks. With him around, killing a hero with any other hero becomes easy. Keep that in mind as you read through my guide, remember that I write it under the assumption that you are willing to cooperate with your allies in order to get a kill.
The skills
As I’m sure many of you know, Ronin has two skills used often, one skill used rarely, and one skill that you should be running if it’s triggered. Flying Death and Kaze are the two that should practically be spammed. If you see an opening, take it, those stuns should protect you if you learn how to aim Flying Death properly. Airy charge in the other hand, is a much riskier skill that should only be used in order to screw with them, or finish them off. The actual order I get them in is listed below.
1: Flying Death
2: Airy Charge
3: Flying Death
4: Airy Charge
5: Flying Death
6: Kaze
7: Flying Death
8: Airy Charge
9: Flying Death (Yes, over a level 2 Kaze)
10: Kaze
11: Airy Charge
12: Kaze
13: Airy Charge
14: Death Poem
15: Kaze
16: Death Poem
17: Death Poem
18: Kaze
19: Death Poem
20: Death Poem
There’s an explanation for this: Flying Death/Kaze are stuns. As a Ronin, you will need to utilize stuns more then anything else in the game, after all, if Ronin was just a bunch of damage, what would make him different then a Ninja? Let me go into detail of how to use each skill individually, then I’ll explain a bit more into that.
Flying Death: This is your lifeblood. There, I said it nice and in the open, I consider Flying Death the most important skill in the Ronin’s repertoire. With a good reason of course, once you get used to Flying Death, you can stunlock multiple heroes to defend a retreating hero. You can stop an enemy entirely for an ally to get a difficult to pull off nuke (Shotgun strafe, for example.) You can use it as an escape skill (Net? JUMP!) You can use it for ‘Counter-Jumping’ as in you avoid their skill while hitting them with Flying Death. This in fact works for everything… Teppo, Rising Dragon, Flying Daggers, Strafe, Way of Death, Whirl, Another flying death, everything, all it’ll take it some good timing and you won’t even be nicked. And unlike the Ninjas net, this stun is a stun once they’re in it, they aren’t moving, even if they have dispel magic, AMS, an escape skill ready… They’re just stuck there. Practice with Flying Death constantly if you really want to get good with Ronin, because the majority will consider how good you are with Flying Death your skill level as a Ronin.
As a further note, it’s possible to feint with Flying Death. To scare them into running prematurely, or to make them waste a skill to avoid what you weren’t going to use. A great deal of people who play Samurai Legends often will base dodging Flying Death when the Ronin suddenly stops moving, it’s a sign that he’s about to jump. So, if you run towards an enemy, get into flying death distance, and then hit Hold Position, it gives off the idea that you’re about to flying death. A successful feint can do a great deal, thus it must be mentioned.
Airy Charge: Airy charge is not nearly as useful as Flying Death, but certainly has it’s specialties. This can save you, or kill them when used at the right time, for the right purpose. This does not, in fact mean that it should always be used to hit them, in fact, the only time it should is if they’re so close to dead it will finish them. If you use it for damage, the enemy will tear you apart, simply because you leave yourself wide open for a counter attack – And Ronin is one of the most fragile heroes out there. No, in fact, often times you use it as a way to get around creeps (Or out of a net.) by quickly moving when in mid Airy, it cancels out at the location that you’re in. Thus, it has nearly infinite possibilities by canceling. You can feint (Make them waste something thinking you’re leaving yourself open.) You can get close enough to Kaze, or you can get close enough for a flying death. You can escape their nukes, or get out of an entrapment. Airy Charge may not be your lifeblood, but it’s something that needs to be mastered to survive as a Ronin, just used differently then one would expect.
Kaze: There’s not much to say here. There’s three uses for it, each very easily listed.
1: Escape skill. Kaze a nearby hero in order to avoid another heroes nuke. Or even use it to cancel their nuke in some cases.
2: Remove hero from combat for several seconds. This is exceptionally useful in multi-hero combat when 4-6 heroes are fighting in the same lane. One hero hasn’t used his nuke yet? Take him out of combat while you’re waiting for your own cooldowns in order to protect your teammates.
3: A damage stun. Not as effective as FD (Though it can lead into a FD!) but if your allies know what they’re doing, they can find where you’re going to hit them, and position themselves accordingly for their own nukes.
Death Poem: As I’m sure many of you know, I consider this skill entirely useless. I
have found one use for it, and that’s all. IF no hero is coming to kill you, you can use it as an effective siege tool. Every other circumstance in the other hand… If you’re below 500 health, you shouldn’t be fighting, you should be going to get healed, because, well, anyone who knows what they’re going can kill you in a split second.
Once you figure out every individual use, you then have to put them together in order to make an effective skill using Ronin. For instance, you never just expect one skill to work—You combine them in order to effectively work.
Let me give an example… Let’s say it’s a Ronin on Ronin battle. You know your enemy is effective as counter-jumping, so trying a straight out Flying Death is risky. You know he’ll likely counter-jump a kaze too, and only end up in pain. And Airy is simply painful… So, what can you do? Well, you use that knowledge against him. You airy first, cancel before you get close enough for a close range FD to hit… If it works out that way, he’ll try to counter jump the feint, then you have an opening to FD him yourself, followed by a swift Kaze if you’re creeps are near by in order to beat him up for it.
That example is something used far more often then one might believe, and requires a kind of instinct in order to effectively do it. But when pulled off correctly, it really works.
The Allies
Now, this is the section I believe is the most important of all the sections. I stated before I firmly believe the Ronin is not a hero killer on his own… I actually would call him more of a hero killing support. This is a few tips and suggestions for how to fight with every hero in Samurai Legends. I do mean every, there’s not one that can’t be efficient with a Ronin.
Ninja: The infamous combo that everyone knows about. Easy to pull off, quick, and efficient, now, I slightly disagree that it is the ‘best’ combination, but it certainly is the simplest to make work out. You should first decide who ‘leads’ in order to prevent you from screwing each other. It is possible for instance, for the Ronin to kaze having the target dodge every flying dagger, or the Ninja to net, accidentally making the Ronin overshoot his Flying Death. Once you decide who leads on the gank, it’ll make it much easier to do.
The trick with them is not to stay for long, due to both having a low amount of health and being melee, you want to simply go in, kill them, get out. If the Ninja leads, it should go Net -> Shuriken -> Flying Daggers -> Flying Death -> Kaze - > Any finishing needing (Airy/Shadow) This should happen in the course of 10 seconds. If it’s any longer, then you open them up to escaping, or yourself up to danger.
If the Ronin is leading, it should go Flying Death -> Kaze -> Net -> Shuriken -> Flying Daggers - > Any finisher. Once again, if this takes more then 10 seconds, you should call the target off and retreat. They make an excellent assassin ganking team, but if you don’t make it quick and efficient, it’s fairly easy to counter-gank the both of them.
Yumi: This is actually my personal favorite ally, for one reason, and one reason only: Shotgun strafe really hurts. There’s a variety of ways to get the result done, and it’s a lot more lenient then it would be if it was with a Ninja.
Unlike a Ninja, you can be expected to lane with a Yumi, letting them come to you over vice versia. Expect the Yumi to either focus on Strafe or traps. Each have their own way of fighting, thus you should likely ask.
If it’s a trap Yumi, you base it on the traps. You keep near her, reading to jump on anything that might attack her. Try to make sure they focus on you, instead of the Yumi in this case, simply because you’re a more efficient bait then her. Try to keep them attacking you, one of the few cases where keeping weak is actually a good idea. Wait until they’re in a trap then pounce. Flying Death them when they are standing on a trap, let the trap go off, let the Yumi get a few arrows (And you get a few slashes) then Kaze only if it will be a finisher. If it will NOT finish, retreat and try again.
If it’s a strafe Yumi, it works on using your stuns in order to let them shotgun. First, it’ll depend on how well you know the Yumi. If the Yumi is exceptionally skilled with strafe, then you can trust them to pull it off when you kaze, if not, then you should focus on kaze -> Flying Death in order to stunlock them enough to get it off. When used correctly, this can slaughter a hero faster then a Ninja/Ronin combo, and leave more leeway to run.
If it is both, then combine the two tactics, using traps to allow her to shotgun, and Kaze to finish.
Regardless of her skill choices, she will have Rain of Arrows, and every time she uses it, you should be close enough to stun anything that tries to interrupt her.
Yari: This one is starting to become almost as famous as Ninja and Ronin in KoNL simply because of Lyncor and Reaper, and myself and Kevar. This is devastating, simply because they make it nearly impossible to kill either one of the heroes while in turn, doing a ton of damage. Both the Yari, and the Ronin should be protecting eachother—Yari with Whirl and tanking, Ronin with Flying Death and Kaze. How do you do damage…well… That depends on organized you are.
There’s two ways to pull this off, one is more effective, but harder to do, the other is less effective, but pretty damn scary regardless. It involves using Whirl and Flying death in cooperation. The easy option is to flying death on top of them, have Yari position and fling them into the creeps. Airy charge once he whirls for extra damage, then kaze (or just beat him) to death—It’s actually rare when people survive this. Yari’s and Dachi’s included. It’s a ton of damage quickly, when added up with any creep attacks pinned on.
The other option is much trickier to pull off, but devastating when done. You have the Yari position himself ahead of time, and then have him whirl him into a flying death. It leaves them stunned in a bad position, and in a single word: Screwed. Them escaping this is very, very rare, due to the creeps are going to be almost killing them by the time you add in a Kaze and the Yari’s extra damage.
There’s also numerous other tricks done besides those, like Whirling them into a kaze, or using Whirl to increase the damage of Airy Charge. Regardless of how you decide to work together with the Yari, it’s proven itself to be very effective.
Warlord: Another devastating combination, if everyone works together well. The Warlord can keep the Ronin alive, and the Ronin can keep them not moving for Dragon Soul. It works just like that.
Ronin stuns, often time using Teppo to make sure Flying Death goes off, then Kazes. Kaze should be followed by a swift dragonsoul, quick amount of damage, devastating to anyone hit by it. Not tricky to pull off, and can slay most heroes nearly instantly.
Shinobi: This is easily the trickest combination to pull off, but tends to be very effective for … Laning? Yes, instead of hero killing, this tends to instant kill a ton of creeps, really fast. Almost as effective as a Flying Daggers to the swarm, with half the mana, it’s based on two things: Way of Death, and Flying Death. Doesn’t matter who goes first, it’s just about having both of them hit without either tripping each other up. It’s enough to stop a push dead on, and often times unexpected. When it comes to facing heroes however, it’s a slightly different technique…
Ronin should stun them, Shinobi should use Old man’s friend in order to beat them to a pulp. Old Man’s friend in melee range can do a ton of damage, and if they can’t avoid is due to stuns, that damage usually adds up.
Onmy/Dachi: I don’t feel like separating these two, because both of them work the same way with a Ronin: Stun/NUKEFEST! If it’s a Dachi, he can just chase and finish with RD afterwards. If it’s an Onmy, well, they shouldn’t be running after a point blank Fujin when they’re stunned.
Items
I don’t feel much needs to be said here, giving you room to experiment. I will say however, he doesn’t need much.
I ‘personally’ go with three consumables, skywalkers, Dispel Sword (Fujin), Silence Blade (Seven storms). And… well, that’s it. I go for that for the simple idea that I shouldn’t need anything else, dispel can take down AMS, skywalkers, and nets, silence can disable escape skills, and Skywalkers can allow me to chase/change lanes quickly. Consumables are usually health/mana potions, and a scroll of TP. Sometimes switching on other things if needed, like a Scroll of Ghosts, or a dust of Appearance.
That’s really all I have to say, I hope this is informative to any who read it.
Re: Skirn's Ronin Guide
Viziroth - 26.02.2007, 08:00
awesome guide, ima try it to help my ronin xD
Re: Skirn's Ronin Guide
tegeus-Cromis - 26.02.2007, 09:24
Quote: Let me give an example… Let’s say it’s a Ronin on Ronin battle. You know your enemy is effective as counter-jumping, so trying a straight out Flying Death is risky. You know he’ll likely counter-jump a kaze too, and only end up in pain. And Airy is simply painful… So, what can you do? Well, you use that knowledge against him. You airy first, cancel before you get close enough for a close range FD to hit… If it works out that way, he’ll try to counter jump the feint, then you have an opening to FD him yourself, followed by a swift Kaze if you’re creeps are near by in order to beat him up for it.
I'm not sure I understand why the opposing Ronin would try to counter-jump an Airy Charge when it's much safer for him to chain Kaze --> FD at point blank. I can see how the feint would be worth trying, but I would expect to jsut be wasting my mana 75% of the time.
Re: Skirn's Ronin Guide
wizard.dark - 26.02.2007, 11:05
Because counter jumping it is so much simpler then normal jumping.And it gives you and your allies an opportunity to kick him around while hes stuned.Point blank kaze doesnt neceserly give u a chance to jump again because many people may dodge that running in diffrent directions.And i practicly never see anyone using faign as it is infact hard to master.
If i had to go up against a good ronin in my lane i would never counter jump and constantly let him come close to my towers.I know he aint gona use airy for even chasing me down to my fountain cause i know he doesnt wana die more then he wants to kill me.If im going up against a dumb ronin...3 mana pots jump hit hit kaze....hit hit..chase....jump airy and hes proly dead.
Re: Skirn's Ronin Guide
Skirn - 26.02.2007, 11:31
Quote: I'm not sure I understand why the opposing Ronin would try to counter-jump an Airy Charge when it's much safer for him to chain Kaze --> FD at point blank. I can see how the feint would be worth trying, but I would expect to jsut be wasting my mana 75% of the time.
Two reasons they do this, unless you're wizard, in which case he has his own idealogy.
First reason: FD - > Kaze allows your FD to cool down in mid kaze, less safe perhaps, but the payout is another stun and a ton of damge.
Second reason: Airy charge works like many other skills. If they're in the middle of it, they don't get stunned by Kaze, thus, FD is quickier too.
As another note, it's an example of knowing thy enemy there. If you know your enemy Kazes instead of FDs, you don't do that ^~.
Re: Skirn's Ronin Guide
tegeus-Cromis - 26.02.2007, 13:39
Well yes, but if someone's charging me, I'm going to assume (unless he's shown himself to be a bad player) that he has reasons to expect to win--maybe there is a windwalked Ninja waiting to join in, for instance--as one would never be so bold as to initiate seriously with it otherwise. In any case, my priority would be to move to a safer position and use my skills with defence in mind rather than use the CD of a crucial spell countering a relatively piddling telenuke.
You're right, though, that it depends a whole lot on what you think your opponent will do. I'm sure some will try to counter-jump every little thing because it's pro. :wink:
Re: Skirn's Ronin Guide
Lyncor - 26.02.2007, 21:55
Personally, I like to run back toward the towers when an enemy ronin Airy Charges and then FD as far back as I can on the moment he starts hitting me. That way I only take the first hit's damage, and unless he's extremely lucky, he's stunned near (If not in) my tower range. Slash, slash, Kaze - Pain ensues.
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