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Qualität des Beitrags: Beteiligte Poster: Omerta - Forbidden - Anonymous - Shadow Phoenix - Lyncor - Viziroth - Anton - Reaper - wizard.dark - nooK - Lord.DarthVader - Andriejj - Menthol.Love - tegeus-Cromis - Attin - A[Y]S-Cry-Ed Forum: Samurai Legends Forenbeschreibung: Official forums aus dem Unterforum: Ideas Antworten: 93 Forum gestartet am: Mittwoch 06.10.2004 Sprache: englisch Link zum Originaltopic: Hero: Raikou Hogosha Letzte Antwort: vor 16 Jahren, 11 Monaten, 11 Tagen, 23 Stunden, 39 Minuten
Alle Beiträge und Antworten zu "Hero: Raikou Hogosha"
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Omerta - 09.01.2007, 16:54Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Raikou Hogosha (Iyadomi Hiro, Jun Izubuchi)
(= Lightning Protector/Guardian)
Role: Sieger, lanesweeper
Primary Attribute: Intelligence
Starting attributes:
STR: 12 (1,3 per level, 40 @ lvl 20)
AGI: 14 (1,5 per level, 44 @ lvl 20)
INT: 19 (2,2 per level, 63 @ lvl 20)
HP: 450 (1100 @ lvl 20)
MP: 285 (945 @ lvl 20)
DMG: 26-35 (70-79 @ lvl 20)
Skills:
1. Heavy Storm [W]
Strong wind and lashing rain from storm clouds make it impossible for enemy forces to advance.
Gives enemy units (heroes are unaffected) and buildings inside the storm a chance to miss on their attacks,
and drenches all units (heros are affected) in water for 3 seconds, slowing their movement and causing them to
take extra damage from lightning attacks. Movement slowed by 10% at every level.
“Quilty and innocent,
painful yet gentle,
faithful yet traitorous,
are the tears of Raijin.”
Type: Channeled slow, miss and damage amplifier
Mana cost: 125
Area of Effect: (about same as on magic traps)
Duration: 12 sec
Cooldown: 30 seconds
lvl 1 – 8% chance to miss, 3% extra damage
lvl 2 – 11% chance to miss, 6% extra damage
lvl 3 – 14% chance to miss, 9% extra damage
lvl 4 – 17% chance to miss, 12% extra damage
lvl 5 – 20% chance to miss, 15% extra damage
2. Kaminari Washi [E]
(=Thunder Eagle)
Type: Summon
Duration: Lasts until death or until resummoned
Cooldown: 30 seconds
Mana cost: 120
Abilities: Passive evade and spell resistances that increase every level. One item slot.
lvl 1 - 300 hp, 19-25 damage, 5% evade and 3% spell resistance
lvl 2 - 330 hp, 24-30 damage, 10% evade and 6% spell resistance
lvl 3 - 360 hp, 29-35 damage, 15% evade and 9% spell resistance
lvl 4 - 390 hp, 34-40 damage, 20% evade and 12% spell resistance
lvl 5 - 420 hp, 39-45 damage, 25% evade and 15% spell resistance
(Beastmaster hawk model, skin here)
3. Shock Aura [R]
Type: Aura (thorns)
Area of Effect: Large
lvl 1 - 3% of damage reflected back to attacker.
lvl 2 - 6% of damage reflected back to attacker.
lvl 3 - 9% of damage reflected back to attacker.
lvl 4 - 12% of damage reflected back to attacker.
lvl 5 - 15% of damage reflected back to attacker.
4. Raigeki [T]
Raikou Hogosha creates a sphere bursting with thunder that sends out
chain lightning each second (similiar to Warlock's Red Death in Tides of Blood)
Type: Chain lightning DoT
Mana cost: 250
Cooldown: 60 seconds
Duration: 20 seconds
lvl 1 - 40 damage per lightning, less damage every jump.
lvl 2 - 50 damage per lightning, less damage every jump.
lvl 3 - 60 damage per lightning, less damage every jump.
lvl 4 - 70 damage per lightning, less damage every jump.
lvl 5 - 80 damage per lightning, less damage every jump.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Icon sources:
Heavy Storm
Kaminari Washi
Shock Aura
Raigeki
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Forbidden and me.
EDIT: Forb, tell me if I forgot to chance something and so on.
EDIT2: Tweaked a bit some stuff and changed Raikegi damage after re-calculations.
EDIT3: Forgot to raise rate of fire.
EDIT4: Added starting values for agi, str and int.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Forbidden - 09.01.2007, 17:40
Some things you somehow missed, and few things I just wanna clear up and ask everyones opinion on:
- you forgot to put in the starting str, agi and int
- Kaminari Washi means Thunder Eagle
- I kinda thought KW could have 1 item slot. After all hunting hawks (nvm the technicalities I know it's an eagle) are used to carry messages sometimes. Although if we are realistic, I doubt an eagle could carry a Samurai Armor. What do you all think?
- in place of Heavy Storm was originally Trample, where the horse would trample everything in frenzy (it funtioned like earthquake with range similiar to warstomp and thunder clap, however the hero lacked animation where the horse would trample the ground so we changed it).
- nooK should know this, but if Raigeki hits buildings, the lightning won't jump. Only when targeting units.
- class suggestions are welcome. We kinda just had to figure something out, but the present one is in a way kind of "forcibly" made, if you know what I mean. The present theme we ended up with, was a guardian/protector of a shrine of Raijin. We also thought about a "Pilgrim", on a journey to visit shrines of various gods.
- We also seems to need the "poem" text for most of the skills.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Anonymous - 09.01.2007, 18:50
Im not a sieging type of person but this sounds like a great hero.Exept maybe for his first ability,why only make the range as wide as a magic trap?Perhaps that should be increased a bit otherwise i like him,although perhaps he needs at least 1 targeting ability but im not shure because it seems like you really want him to be concentrated on sieging.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Forbidden - 09.01.2007, 18:58
We kind of do, and also on being a laner, a spawn killer.
Atm there's Ninja, Ronin, Onmyoji (especially after fixed Fujins), No-Dachi and Yari, who are (mainly at least) either better herokillers or then they are multiroles.
However nooK is the one to call the shots.
Edit: I just calculated abit, and I came to the conclusion that Raigeki is too weak, in general: rate of fire too low and too low damage to heroes and buildings (after armor reduction).
The lightning deals around 52 (70 x 0.75) points to heroes at lvl 5. I am aware that it deals this amount every 1,5 seconds, however I am still not completely satisfied. With the boost of 15% that Heavy Storm gives, it deals around 60 damage at lvl 5 to heroes. Buildings, which take greatly reduced damage, take even less, and I think it might be too little.
Although if the hero himself and Kaminari Washi attack the target at the same time it deals nice damage. I suggest we increase the rate of fire for now, then test it abit to see how it works out. Of course first the hero needs to actually be done.
Whats the reduction % of damage on each jump on Chain Lightning? The damage on each jump reduces by X%, right? on 30 damage/lightning...the last 2 jumps barely deal noticeable damage I think.
This sounds kinda stupid, considering that we made this hero and I'm the one critisizing it. :?
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Anonymous - 09.01.2007, 19:08
this is hard because the other day me and my friend were playing 3 on 3 and it came down to the fact that he had to defend the main base as yari while i had to take out the rest of the spawns of enemy.Now defending as yari is great and all exept for the fact that he has no aoe wats so ever....eventualy they hired 3 legends and finaly took my friend down.I came to the rescue and fended troops off with ronin at last second and then we went back to finishing the game.
Now what im saying is...will this hero have enough power to STOP troops from assulting the base if they are really massed...you know what im saying?like when theres a Yari or something in a lane and he just keeps slaughtering spawns till his troops are 3-4 spawns big....perhaps you should make his first ability slightly damaging to...since it amplifies damage by lightnging,but you have only 1 lightning spell.
So you see perhaps you should add another low cool down lightning spell or just add some damage to this one O and most important eather make it casting,or non channeled period....or it will be very hard to use in total.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Shadow Phoenix - 10.01.2007, 03:26
This hero could be really interesting. But if im correct.. every character in SL has a damage nuke skill.
Yari = Whirl
Dachi = Rising Dragon
Ronin = Flying Death
Ninja = Shuriken
Warlord = Teppo
Onmyoji = Frost Lance
Yumi = Strafe
Shinobi = Way of Death
But this guy doesnt, it doesnt stick with that theme. While we want to i dont know. But this character doesnt have a attack skill accept his Ulti and the eagle i sapose. (By the way, if the eagles flying does that mean the only chars that can hit it are Onmy and Yumi? And others if they use their skills?)
But i agree with what Wizard is saying, the weakness to lightning is cool on the storm, but with his ulti being the only thing able to take advantage of that then that means its not that useful until theres a huge wave of creep building up.
But i dont know how the two skills actually work so im only specutalting.
But it says the Storm ability is channeling.. so does that mean youd have to cast your Ulti FIRST then channel the storm?
Does the Lightning Orb move or just sit where you cast i for 20 seconds?
The thorns will be awesome as a get away skill, if someone chases you to try and get the kill at the risk of their own life they will have to retreat even sooner as everytime they hit you they hurt themselves and decrease the chase behind enemy lines time they have to finish the job, good pick.
The eagle doubling as a item courier would be a great idea i think.
I think thats all the things that came to mind from reading this characters bio. Other than that, great work guys should be proud! :D
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Lyncor - 10.01.2007, 07:42
What's the casting range on the Chain Lightning from the orb? Is it automatically targeting, or can you select? Is there any way of disrupting it?
Another thing I'm curious about - what's his attack range? Or is he melee?
What's his movement speed? I'm guessing 300, the norm for SL, but you never know. I think he -should- be 300, to note. :)
The mana is perhaps a bit too high, I think, considering the cost of his skills. I know he's supposed to have a lot, but 945 is excessive when there are plenty of items in the game that enhance a hero's mana bank.
For the record, I -like- how he doesn't have a regular nuke skill. It makes using him more.. difficult, I think. He's godly in a lane, and nuke skills are primarily for hero battles. His ulti would really hurt heroes, so I reckon it should be his only "nuke" - because it would be nice to see a hero that does laneing really well but actually isn't that powerful in a hero fight :)
Nicely put together hero, it's not straightforward. I like that. Good work, you two.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Omerta - 10.01.2007, 15:55
Shadow Phoenix:
- The attack type is ranged -> Onmy, Yumi, Raikou Hogosha himself will be able to damage the bird with normal attacks.
- When you cast ulti, the orb pops out and stays there until the duration is over. Cannot be dispelled but the chain lightning can be blocked by anti-magic shell. The orb is supposed to auto-attack (chain lightning) when cast, but can be targetted to enemy hero, tower or whatever you wish.
For example, you can pop out ulti, target it to enemy hero and position yourself to channel Heavy Storm.
- Since eagles cannot talk (and buy items from shops), I'd like to make it only accept items given to it by you, your mercenary or another player. This would also clear out that its only a carrier.
Lyncor:
- Range is about, ugh, radius of two magic traps set next to each other? Hard to say anything about this one before its tested. After the orb is cast, it cannot be dispelled, Whirled away by Yari or interrupted by any other mean. Already answerred to targetting it.
- He is ranged, and I agree with giving him 300 movespeed.
- Mana pool might indeed need a nerf, but I'm unsure of it.
wizard.dark:
- The ultimate, especially with Heavy Storm, is supposed to sweep the lane clean of spawns. Shock aura will also kinda retaliate to things like Shogun's glory attack speed bonus, Banner of Honor (more damage dealt by opponent, more damage taken by opponent) and Yari's heavy melee strikes.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Forbidden - 10.01.2007, 21:28
I see your point on "eagles can't talk". Perhaps a bit too realistic. Think of it like he just writes a short message and ties it on the Eagles leg, just like messenger birds usually.
Anyway so far Phoenix is for the itemslot, Lyncor is neutral afaik, and I'm for it. NooK's call I guess.
I thought that 4 things could be considered as "lighting damage":
- the heros own attack (nooK said he will shoot some kind of ball of lightning or somesort, though he can't attack much when he's channeling HS)
- KW's attack (perhaps a thunder stream like beastmasters lvl 3 hawk?)
- Raigeki (btw according to Kouenzans nippon-translator, it means "to be struck by lightning" I found the name on a Yu-Gi-Oh! card and it sounded rly cool :) )
- Shock aura (well it is a lightning shock after all, would it be too weird? :shock: )
About the summon being flying: I doubt it will matter. People like to use Shrines of Fire => tower + archers + elite archers + all the heroes Omerta mentioned + many spells (teppo, Fujins, Shurikens, Flying Daggers, Ensnare etc.). Trust me, the bird is going down if necessary :D
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Anonymous - 10.01.2007, 22:35
Mmmmm im not so concerned about the bird im more concerned about the fact of what exactly is he going to do if theres a lane war between 4 heros or his lane is geting raided all of the sudden and he has no teammates near by?He cant nuke anyone to make the run for cover,he can bearly slow them,and that will take channeling to but they can step out of it...and he cant recive much damage even by a fountain.The plain old fact is if he had to face a hero,period,hed be stuck or running for help very fast :?
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Viziroth - 10.01.2007, 23:13
I liked wiz's idea of the heavy storm doing dmg. Perhaps giving it a slight DoT like maybe 10 dmg/s since he can't really be doing anything else during this time and heavy storms usually have lightning...
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Lyncor - 11.01.2007, 02:08
To be honest, if you're ganked by 4 heroes and they have any idea what they're doing, you're probably dead anyway.
One of the things that I like about SL is that the effects aren't too overboard. The game isn't too flashy, though it is indeed awesome looking in the abilities that it has - FD, Flying Daggers, Teppo, Dragonsouls, etc. I'd rather his normal attack be throwing that war fork of his. Since it's a throwing attack, it would in turn make sense for his attack range to be about 400-500 - which is the attack range I think would be best for him.
If the ulti is going to be able to do damage to towers, I suggest it does reduced damage. If you calculate it so that a full level Rain of Arrows and a full level Raigeki will -only just- kill the first tower that the chain lightning hits, I think it'll be balanced - that way, if they're doing their ults together (And you -know- they will be) it'll actually be stoppable. Still alarmingly devastating, but stoppable.
Furthermore, the ult needs to stop if he dies. Otherwise, he can just run in and cast it on the tower group and deal unavoidable sieging damage - which is kind of imba. There needs to be -some- way of stopping it; and killing the hero sounds about right to me.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Forbidden - 11.01.2007, 09:58
If Heavy Storm deals damage, what's the point in having the extra damage from lightning attacks? It deals slight damage, +15% to that. Why not just deal a little more damage without the bonus %? It sounds kinda stupid if you ask me. I know Raigeki would still benefit from the bonus dmg %, but Heavy Storm itself might be abit idiotic then.
If it must have something, then make it rain bolts of Lightning at random locations in the aoe, dealing maybe 100 dmg/strike every 2-5 seconds or something. I will duscuss this further with Omerta and see if we can remake it somehow. Then well see what you guys think.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Anonymous - 11.01.2007, 19:00
I kno this will sound alitle to overboard but perhaps you should give the +damage to lightning spells to the eagle OR thorns ability.I kno this would be just like adding another ability to a hero compacted into one but since the hero sounds prety week on battles that would make him alitle more formidable.Also once taking that out you should add a STUNING ability which would make perfect sence considering the fact that lightning known to stun people.This ability would be the traditional nuke/escape ability and would do moderate damage such as starting 75 and ending 250.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Viziroth - 11.01.2007, 23:35
When I think lightning I think more along the lines of slow then stun...(ala purge)...but then again there is storm bolt... But still not targeting stuns...
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Anonymous - 11.01.2007, 23:43
Perhaps then you are right,instead of stuning he should slow,as long as it lets him get away.
But if that still sounds to cheap to have a single person target(although i still think he should to be able to get away)then he should have a passive stun ability like human dwarve hero or to make it more custom a stun ability that happens when he gets hit,like lightning from the sky protecting him ><
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Lyncor - 12.01.2007, 02:53
I completely disagree with the stun idea.
To note - so far, all the new heroes have been vastly overpowered when added. People seem to underestimate just what skilled SL players can do with a hero.
If he seems underpowered before adding him, GOOD. It's a lot easier to slightly buff a hero than to nerf it, as we've learned through all the No-Dachi / Onmyoji / Shinobi / Ronin stuff.
At the same time, I suggest raising the lightning damage amplification of Heavy Storm to 25%. Then, once that's done, don't increase his power any more. See how he fares when/if he's added, THEN think about buffs and nerfs.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Forbidden - 12.01.2007, 15:40
wizard...please...read the description before posting, Heavy Storm: "...slows movement of enemy units in the area of effect..." :arrow: It DOES have a slow. No stuns, definitely no.
I figured out a "poem" text for at least Raigeki, and I suggest ones for others too:
Raigeki
"They say lightning never
strikes the same place twice
- well they were wrong."
Kaminari Washi
"Proud, free...a noble spirit."
Shock Aura
"Raijin only grants his
protection to the just."
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Forbidden - 12.01.2007, 16:21
Heavy Storm v2.0
A heavy storm strikes an area, hindering the advance of enemy forces. All enemy units and buildings in the AoE have their movement speed slowed by 15%, have a 20% chance to miss and take extra damage from lightning attacks. The clouds rain down lightning bolts every 2-4 seconds dealing 35 damage.
Mana cost: 125
Cooldown: 30 seconds
level 1 – lasts 6 sec, 5% extra dmg
level 2 – lasts 8 sec, 10% extra dmg
level 3 – lasts 10 sec, 15% extra dmg
level 4 – lasts 12 sec, 20% extra dmg
level 5 – lasts 14 sec, 25% extra dmg
- Version 2: noted all comments and tried a remake. I considered that HS lightning could function like flame strike and blizzard: It would damage all units it hits, even your own. The AoE of the lightning should be a very small part of the whole spells AoE, and it should strike at a random location inside the Storms AoE. I mean like 1/3 of what a magic trap has. So it hits 1-3 units max and it could also miss.
Comment. If no one agrees, we use the original version that dealt no damage or this one without the random lightning bolts.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Anonymous - 12.01.2007, 17:26
Is it still channeling?cause it seems to me if a hero goes after him,and he tries to run the hero wont be slowed and he will run at same speed as him.Although i guess thats what you want,im just asking.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Viziroth - 13.01.2007, 01:45
I love heavy storm 2.0 ^.^ and now w/ the dmg I have no complaints about it being channeling.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Lyncor - 13.01.2007, 05:01
I likey.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Forbidden - 15.01.2007, 16:00
NooK has read it, hasn't commented, but I spoke with him, and he is fine with it, but he didn't like the ultimate. He told me he will post ideas for a new ulti himself, but since I am yet to see any, I ask everyone else to try out some ideas. PLEASE remember that the role is laner, so don't try to make him a herokiller by giving him some imba single nuke. Suggest new ultimates everyone.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Viziroth - 17.01.2007, 02:16
Umm how about monsoon or rain of chaos w/o summons and make the stun only like .1 seconds so it still interupts stuff but doesn't really like matter, and change the meteors to lightning bolts of course.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Anonymous - 18.01.2007, 22:23
The Hurricane god
The Hero throws his spear(fork,whatever it is)at the ground calling the gods.After 3 seconds the fork will cause huge hurricane to arrupt from it that will deal damage to buildings,throw units into air and cause slowed hero movement.After the spell is over the area still recovering causes attack speed reduction for 15 seconds.
Level 1:20 damage per second to buildings,4 second unit stun,30% movement penalty to heros.25% attack speed reduction after effect wears off.
Level 2:30 damage per second to buildings,5 second unit stun,35%
movement penalty to heros.30% attack speed reduction after effect
wears off.
Level 3:40 damage per second to buildings,6 second unit stun,40%
movement penalty to heros.40% attack speed reduction after effect wears off.
Level 4:50 damage per second to buildings,7 second unit stun,50% movement penalty to heros.50% attack speed reduction after effect wears off.
Level 5:60 damage per second to buildings,7 second unit stun,50% movement penalty to heros.60% attack speed reduction after effect wears off.
Ok so maybe its alitle imba during lanin,but if thats what your aiming for this is perfect.It will be perfect when taking down the outpost cause it will keep the units from interupting.It will be perfect for taking down towers although i want the area of effect to be medium so it cant be used on more then 2 towers at a time however still cover a lane of units.It will be perfect for running AFTER an assult,and it can also be interrupted because it has 3 second casting time.And the attack speed penalty is perfect for giving heros trouble after u leave with units.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Anonymous - 18.01.2007, 22:24
Sorry for double post,forgot to mention i couldnt really come up with a good name or a poem so yeah thatd be great to change :roll:
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Lyncor - 19.01.2007, 03:39
How long does it last? Is there any way to stop it?
Keep in mind that this character's ult and Rain of Arrows at the same time should not be able to destroy a tower outright.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Forbidden - 19.01.2007, 20:47
Ultimate – Thunders Embrace
The Raikou Hogosha enchants his fork with the power of thunder. His attack type changes into Lightning, he deals area of effect damage and has a chance to purge the target of all magical effects.
Mana cost: 150
duration: 25
Cooldown: 60 seconds
level 1 – 55% AoE damage, 10% chance to purge
level 2 – 60% AoE damage, 15% chance to purge
level 3 – 65% AoE damage, 20% chance to purge
level 4 – 70% AoE damage, 25% chance to purge
level 5 – 75% AoE damage, 30% chance to purge
Comments: Yep, that’s right, a self buff ultimate. I don’t mean splash like on Pit Lord’s Cleaving Attack. I mean something more like AoE damage that Chimaeras deal, perhaps with slightly larger AoE. The purge effect was planned to work as a counter for anti magic shield (which has been said to be too strong/cheap/spammable atm.), shoguns glory and similar effects. Should also work like purge does, stop the target for some time and then cause a minor slow for a short duration (probably shortter slow than Purge of Shamans does). I didn’t plan for it to deal any damage against summons, but if you see fit that it helps then include it – not many summons in the game atm, only 2 I think: Kaminari Washi (assuming it will be used) and Banner of Honor.
The point in changing his attack type to “Lightning” is to make some more use of the Heavy Storm “drenching” effect. Also consider making Lightning damage a new, different damage type (like Dragon Warriors have their own damage type, that no other unit has) that you could put on Kaminari Washi, and on the hero when this skill is active.
Oh yes, by the way, it seems to me like many people here are thinking that he should throw his fork instead of a lightning ball. That brings me to suggest something, because I feel the same way: Make his normal attack a fork throw like Orc Wind Riders, and then when this skill is active, add an Orb of Lightning to the heros attacks. That will make his attack animation be a ball of thunder. It doesn't look good if u ask me that he shoots a ball of lightning from a fork like that, mostly because that kind of weapon is meant for melee in reality, so it won't look that good anyway when it's used as a ranged weapon.
OK I'm done, stick a fork in me.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Anonymous - 19.01.2007, 23:49
Sorry for not been clear enough,there is a way to stop it and that would be stuning/silencing him when he is casting it for those 3 seconds.Also anti magic shield will prevent you from taking slowing penalties from it. And it should last for as long as the unit timer says each lvl (4 seconds 1st lvl 5 seconds 2nd lvl)and as i mentioned earlier 15 seconds for the attack speed penalty after the effect.
But yeah i like the lightning bolt idea to.><
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Anonymous - 22.01.2007, 00:25
How about a rain of choas summoning "spark elementals" (wisps) that would explode. and intead of meteors have them lightning bolts.
So something like:
Summons spark elementals from the sky which come down with powerful bolts of lighting which deal 100 dmg and stun for 3(1.5) seconds.
Level 1: summons 4 spark elementals which explode for 100dmg
level2: 4 125
level3: 5 150
level4: 5 175
level5: 6 200
might need some nerfing tho...
Or of course the designated lightning ult of monsoon
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Viziroth - 22.01.2007, 00:31
Sorry that guest is me, forgot to login, oh and also the explosions would do lightning dmg as well as the lightning bolts(duh)
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Lyncor - 22.01.2007, 02:46
I've been thinking about it...
To be honest, I think that this character was designed to work with the ult that he had. If you change the ult, the entire hero's going to need a rework. Just shoving on a different ultimate will disrupt all the balancing and planning that Forb, Omerta and now the people that were posting suggestions have been doing.
Even though it means more work, if we're going to change the ult, you're probably going to have to change the rest of (Or at least some of) his skills in turn.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Anton - 23.01.2007, 18:05
ok 5 things.(lol, started as 3)
1. i agree with lyncor, i liked his first ulti it set him apart from the other heros a bit. p.s. a buf skill as i think nooK once said would be boring. (unles it looks coold like the yaris one, wich just makes him soo bad ass)
2. i can see alot of people who is new to SL that picked this hero complaing that he is borign and/or sucks (mostly cos they dont understande how to use him) and leaving, and we all no ppl that leave make games not as fun :(
3. dose the rain skill slow 10% or 50% at lvl 5(i think its 10 but my brain kant figer it out cos its realy early in the morning like 4am, why am i awake... :( ). 50 would b soo awsum in a heros fight espeshily if they run. then again 50 is waaaaa 2 much( kant be 50% thats insane, cancel my early state ment) thow 10% ms reduction is not alot on a magic trap sized aoe, of cores i gess im thinking of this in the use as a holdign or at lest delying skill(until alies get there) and may get shot down for it. (rememberign that a trap aoe is aproximately the size of the flying death stun aoe i think and how)(i could be wrong but i ges we may not no until the hero is finished and in the beta testing stages) if this where a bit more he would be very use full in a hero fight and it would beter it explan the 30 sec cooldown(wich is big for a base skill in SL but its powerful so hay, and you only relay have to weite 17 secs between the spell ending and you castign it again). but we must remmeber thsi si his only aoe skil and on a smal efect it may be ok to rase it a bit mire than 10%. also the tool tip says its inposable for units to advance so mayby normal units are slowed more and heros les like say heros are slowed 10% and all other units 15 or 20%, it may not work but thsi si ment to be an ideas section :)
4. a way of balancing the orb could be that the bird chanles it and if it is killed the spell stops it also gives the player a chance to stop it if it has to for some very strange reason, also it makes the abillity rquire more skill and means there is more risk in it when useing his ulti, in other words you kant just run in cast it and run. because as it is you can deal serious damge to a tower every time the skill cools down. also it gives you an isentive to lvl up the sumon. and in a game of ppl that no waht there doing a yumi should only be able to pull of a full rain of arows if they are un aposed also the yumi is very exposed while doing a rain of arows, so by comparison this hero would be alot more powerful than a yumi at sedging espeshily(as he is with the orb ulti) seaming the thorns + some armor would make him amazeing at liveing and runing
5. i think the heros atack does not need to be lightning. seaming as his buff lightning damage is chanaling and he kant use the bonus damage from it in conjunction with his normal atack (maby if the 3 extra slow was also extra damge 2). just tryging to remove tasks that may be pointless and time consuming for nook 2 do. it may be sute his charictor to have a lighning atack thow so this is not realy of major inportance to me i just thowt id point it out.
p.s. for the ppl that have played samurai warrios 2 will lauf at the name on the pic for the modle of this hero. if nook used the same voice as the guy from samurai warriors 2 i would wet my self laufing every time i played him :D
p.p.s. i rambled on in 3. so i bolded and under lined my main point so no one misses it :)
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Forbidden - 23.01.2007, 22:26
The important things is that you have to convince nooK to agree on using the first ulti.
We are thinking too complicated. We need to just make the orb follow the hero around at a distance for simplicitys sake. This will solve the problem of the "unstoppable hit-and-run attack".
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Anonymous - 23.01.2007, 22:39
I bearly could undesrtand what you said(not trying to insult sorry ><).But you are right that ulti would be much to powerfull if it is just cast and the hero runs away.
Personaly i still think my special idea would be the best(im so modest i know :D),But now i think not only should it be cast,as an 3 seconds till the hurricane begins,but now i think he should also channel it.That would mean that he cant just cast it and leave it there to slow down units and damage towers. But thats just me lol i dont REALLY expect anyone to like my idea im just giving the best suggestion for that type of hero.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Anton - 24.01.2007, 02:14
Too the huricane idea. if it had a 3 second casting time and it be chaniling would make it to easy to interupt if eny hero is nearby. wich would make it a very anoyign skill. also this ulti would make his chanelign speell not whereth getign exept for the slow and chance to miss. also what did you not understand?
With the one about movment speed dont read eny of it befor the bolded bit cos i was sleep deprived aWnd nt realy thinking completly straght.
If the orb folows you every where then it would still be insane if your beign chased. espeshily if some other player stuned the person chasing you, you could then proceed to monsoon on them for the kill. it could posably become the best eskape skill in the game. thow maby thats what you where tryign to say. *shrugs*
i think nook mite like the skill more if we figure out a way of makeing it more fair/skill based/balalanced (like nearly all the other skill in SL).
I still think makeing the bird chanel the ulti would work for balanceing it (the hero would still be casting it thow). and make putign levels into the biurd more weth while.
thow another idead for making the more atractive would be if you put a slight movment speed incress with every level, it would make the it more atractive for fetching you items.
p.s. i apoligise for my shite spelling, it is not because of lazy ness i just have have disgraphia(and mild dislexia) wich for people that dont no it means i suck at reading and writing(primarly spelling) and the dislexia means my hand eye cordination sucks. btw its a genetic thing so...blame my perents.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Reaper - 24.01.2007, 10:39
I personally like the original idea for the hero. The only problem I can see is the ult and hit and run attacks. This can easily be solved by making the ult stick to the hero as was suggested above. Maybe make the orb orbit the hero? Dunno, but I think that would look pretty freaking cool... A big giant ball of lightning orbiting you and sending out chain lightning everywhere :D
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Viziroth - 24.01.2007, 11:27
Yesh I too would like that, the orb of lighting and the chain lightning and the awesomeness of it all.....I still want a hero with a rain of chaos spell tho >.<
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Anonymous - 24.01.2007, 11:56
ye i tkink the ulti like warlocks in tod will be cool !!! his ulti is his only rly damage vs other heroes i will make it long cooldown and hight mana cost but no casting time //sry for bad english
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Lyncor - 24.01.2007, 16:58
Having the ball of lightning orbit the hero would be badass on a stick. Plus, it really adds to the sense-making of "Kill the hero, end the ultimate".
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Anonymous - 26.01.2007, 04:08
I thought bout it,and the bird idea sounds well underpowered to me.
As Lyncor said before it might be a good thing but heres some of the points.
If you played ToB before against maiden you would know that she has 2 summoning abilities which people tend to just ignore.Everyone knows to watch out for her big ass nuke when she comes close but,the summons pose almost no threat late game.
So i guess what im saying is,carying the items is cool and all but if you really wanted an item without leaving battle you would wait for a merc to come up to you and give it to you even if he has to go around a mountain.
In late battles that bird will be virtualy usless.And seen as how its the only thing that would unnoy heros perhaps it should have some ability(not gona suggest anything itl be overpowered straight away).Thats all.
PS:i love the orbit around hero ability,perfect balance
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Anonymous - 26.01.2007, 04:18
So sorry for double(triple)post,my comp sucks><
OMEDIT: Deleted the duplicate post.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Lyncor - 26.01.2007, 17:16
I'll say what I've been saying up until now.
While yes, wizard may well be right that the summon will be underpowered - give it a chance as it is. This hero should seem UNDER powered when he's being created, because we don't know what uncanny strategies players will think of when they actually play him.
If it's too weak in game, then by all means.. consider buffing it.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Viziroth - 27.01.2007, 02:50
I agree with lyncor, so far new heros have been overpowered. And it's much easier to buff someone than nerf them to balence.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Anonymous - 27.01.2007, 17:23
You guys basicly repeated urself a few posts back :D and yes that what i meant when i said "As Lyncor said it might be a good thing"
That was just my suggestion for perhaps after the testing,i only have 1 skill idea for the bird but i wont suggest until after the hero been tested.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Omerta - 27.01.2007, 20:55
It feels that KoNL is like happy religious brotherhood. Backing up each other when in need and going against opposition in one force.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Lyncor - 28.01.2007, 02:07
Oh man, that made me laugh heartily. I'm still chuckling half a minute later as I type this out.
"Religous" aspect aside, though, that's pretty much true...
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Anonymous - 28.01.2007, 16:12
thisl proly be a flame,but i am yet to see Lyncor let me on his team when me or him host.He just says"what are you scared?"and i say"sigh...no i guess"and then ofcaurse a bunch of super good konl players come in back him up and my team of dlers gets raped in 30 minutes or so :D so.
And if one of them desides to land a hand to the newbies,the rest say hes a traitor and he quickly goes back :P o well guess thats how u guys are always gona be itd be nice if u actualy played against some equals for once and had some opposition...at least when im around.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Viziroth - 29.01.2007, 01:35
WEll..sometimes we play eachother ^.^
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Anonymous - 29.01.2007, 02:07
Yah thats what i meant when i said "with me" :D
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Lyncor - 29.01.2007, 04:44
Wizard.. the reason that I don't let you on my team is because you go around saying you're as good as me. So, naturally, I want to play against you.
And in terms of stacking.. usually when people join, they default to each other's team because that's what friends tend to do. If someone goes against, usually there's a bit of horsing around before we actually go 'okay, so shall we balance the teams then?' and try to figure out a way that's as fair as we can make it (It's harder than it sounds).
Sometimes we just all go on one team, but that's to practice working with each other.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Anonymous - 29.01.2007, 04:51
I do remmember mentioning im as good as you once or twice before but as many games as u played against me neather of us ever got to kill each other and bearly ever even got into a conflict so what are you trying to prove lol?I dont see a point personaly
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Anonymous - 29.01.2007, 04:56
O and i dont "go around" saying im as good as you,i told you that once before i realised i didnt play nearly as much as you did since when the game came out when both of us played alot.
And as for you winning,that doesnt have anything to do with you been good thats the team,and usualy u get Skirn and more members of KoNL on urs and i get a bunch of dlers....as i mentioned previously.So once again that is proving nothing as well.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Lyncor - 29.01.2007, 05:11
As much as I'd love to discuss this with you, this thread is not the place. If you have a problem you'd like to take up with me/us, I ask that you come to http://beam.to/konl and take it up there.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Anton - 01.03.2007, 01:24
as tempting as it is to "flame" wizard, id much rather discus this hero.
i herd that nook is completely rebuilt the hero and was wondering how he changed him?
i personaly liked the original suggestion for skills, some number tweaks mite have been necessary and also you would need to make the bird channel his original ulti to make it more balanced.
just to clarify this idea the bird would channel the ult, the hero would still cast it, you would just not be able to use you bird till the end of the spell(unless you wanted 2 cancel it), this would mean you would have to protect the bird instead of just running.
maybe there should also be a mana penalty if the bird dies.
but this is not my map so o cant make these things happen and will just have to be happy with what nook decides upon. :)
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
wizard.dark - 01.03.2007, 15:54
Bird channeling the spell would make very litle sence and frankly i dont see how the hero would protect it whats so ever since bout 1,2 nukes could take the bird out.Just think ninjas shurikens how easy are they to throw at a bird whos channeling a spell that lasts that long.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Lyncor - 01.03.2007, 23:22
He can do more to protect the bird than the Yumi can do to protect herself, while SHE channels her siege ult.
Remember: Teamwork is key. While the bird channels the ult, you get team mates to help you guard the bird. Sure, 1-2 big nukes will take it out... but if you have a couple of heroes like Ronin and Ninja around, will they really want to take the chance of trying to kill it when it leaves them open to being killed themselves?
More people should play chess..
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Forbidden - 02.03.2007, 00:05
Well, it's no use arguing about the bird anymore since nooK has made changes, whatever they are. There won't likely even be any Raigeki for anyone to channel, since nooK has personally said he disliked the ulti. Let's just wait and see what he grants for us.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Anton - 05.03.2007, 05:43
i was just offering a way to make this skill balanced and the hero suggestion work. i never said that it would be a perfect solution but i believe it would be a start. even if nook dose not want to use these skills it is good to keep the idea and discussion open because he may change his mind.
p.s. i would still like to no what nooK decided upon for this hero, so please tell me/ us nooK, pretty please :)
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
nooK - 15.04.2007, 16:48
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Forbidden - 15.04.2007, 19:12
They say a picture tells more than a 1000 words. Yet for some reason I haven't completely figured it out :D
So what's the deal? Nice to see that the guy likes the nature. But any further info? About skills or when we get to see him in action?
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
nooK - 18.04.2007, 15:43
Thanks for your work Forbidden and Omerta, some stuff you suggested for him got in, maybe it isn`t much but you still helped me a lot, thanks :)
credited you, hope it`s ok.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Lord.DarthVader - 18.04.2007, 20:12
I write for about last spell of hero. For me is mega sux now. If im use -150mana its and spell work only 3sec? :shock: When guy not die with 3 sec spell loses. Can use for me, can use for dying guy becase i must be really fast for help using this.
My idea is:
Give More sec for this:
4
7
11
13
15
And reduct hp for max 300-400 in 5 lvl.
:P
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Andriejj - 18.04.2007, 21:26
There is a small mistake in his first spell's tooltip- it says that the spell has 3000 range.
The ultimate seems to be the weakest one in the whole game- if you edited it so that you could cast it on yourself, it could be good, but now it sucks. The other way is to increase the duration, but not as much as Vader suggested.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
nooK - 18.04.2007, 22:48
It has 3000 range. Just watch how long it flys.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
wizard.dark - 19.04.2007, 16:55
At first i was confused to at the 3000 range because to actualy shoot it u gota run up real close.But then i realsied Nook proly wanted it that way so its alot harder to hit.U have to shoot it right next to urself and gota be prety damn good from hiting from far away.Anyway me and Ed had a blast 1 on 1 with the heros and i killed him once :P,chased him down he kept going between units so i would miss so i kept it ran infront of him and bamed him as he bearly walked off lol ><FUN FUN
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Lyncor - 24.04.2007, 07:01
<Glances between the hero suggestion and the hero in the map.>
Wow. So different. Oh well!
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Menthol.Love - 25.04.2007, 23:06
Oh Lyncor, btw, it's "suggestion" not "will be put in regardless". When you SUGGEST a hero, that hero is SUGGESTED. NOT auto put in, gg.
The suggested hero for him had many mistakes, and really, wouldn't have taken much talent to play. SOOO nooK fixed him up, with tons of suggestions from the community (that doesn't include KoNL, they rarely help, more so just complain if they don't get their way.). Now, the hero is GREAT. Love him, he's super fun to play, though t hat AoE crap is going to need a nerf next version. ^_^
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Shadow Phoenix - 26.04.2007, 09:06
Im glad you love it KnoT, you and the .91 onwards series are -made- for each other, perfect pair :)
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
nooK - 26.04.2007, 16:59
At least he isn`t a stealer like you.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Viziroth - 27.04.2007, 05:02
A stealer? heh...theif is a better word, or crook, or bandit, or even better restorer, reviver, rescuer, or redeemer
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
tegeus-Cromis - 27.04.2007, 06:42
For someone who claims to have no grudge against nooK, you sure seem persistent in rubbing your theft in his face.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Viziroth - 27.04.2007, 06:54
*sigh* yeah...had a long week, sorry ^.^
Also, I don't truely belive we stole it, as you are to read the latter words they all mean people who bring back to formor glory...
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Shadow Phoenix - 27.04.2007, 06:54
I have been rubbing it in? Show me a quote, not in response to someone elses argument about SL:Legacy, of me rubbing it in, just plain outright "Ha, we beat you nooK!" Or something of the like.
Id like to see that. And if there is one i will gladly apologise.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Viziroth - 27.04.2007, 06:55
SP I think he was refearing to me
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
tegeus-Cromis - 27.04.2007, 07:08
I was referring to Viz.
I just think that even if you guys are totally convinced that your actions are spotless as the driven snow--an opinion I of course do not share--you could be a hell of a lot more tactful. Just the fact that you are still able to post on these forums to explain/defend/whatever yourselves is a credit to nooK. (I like how Lyncor had the nerve to complain that his 'farewell post' was deleted--oh noes, how despotic!)
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Viziroth - 27.04.2007, 07:12
Oh, we're not saying that what we did was 100% right, we're just saying the good out weighs the bad or that what was acomplished was worth the bad...And yeah we are thankful that nook hasn't deleted all our posts ^.^ it show's he wasn't exactually what he was showing us....or that in all reality he really doesn't care....or can be usuing all of this as a publicity stunt....or just to try and show every1 we are jerks, altho it's probably the first one...
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Menthol.Love - 29.04.2007, 13:01
nooK has EVERY right to be pissed. Hell, he has the right to rant and rave, scream names, and everything else that most at KoNL have said he does. Why's that? Because some people he trusted BACKSTABBED him. And there is NO denying that. You all know you backstabbed him, and you make it obvious in your posts. I've been upset at nooK multiple times for not removing something that I felt was imbalanced, or for not listening. HOWEVER, I didn't go and backstab him and hack the map to re-release it. I did, actually, just nod my head, and accept that what I didn't like was still included. Why? Because that's called respect, my good friends here at the forums, respect. I respect nooK as much as I possibly could repsect someone, look at the BULLSHIT (excuse the langauge) that he's being put through! Look at the bullshit that everyone else who helped with the SL that we all love so much is going through! And you go and COMPLAIN MORE? "Whiny bunch" as someone said. Works remarkably well.
Why hack a map to put in everything YOU want when you can just help with the REAL one that has in it what the majority of the community wants?
Greater good my ass.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Attin - 29.04.2007, 13:25
Menthol.Love wrote: "Whiny bunch" as someone said. Works remarkably well.
That would be me :roll:
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
wizard.dark - 29.04.2007, 15:35
Why hack a map and put in everything they want?Because Nook wouldnt,and btw....ALOT of the community agrees with the changes the Konl made.1 more thing knot...wat are u talking bout?not only do you suck at SL but u bearly host it.You dont care if its balanced or not you just want to be a total dick head.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Menthol.Love - 30.04.2007, 05:11
Barely host it? Erm.. go download my banlist, then look at what 90% of my games I've played are. Samurai Legends.
"Because nooK wouldn't." GOOD ANSWER BRO! YEW R PRO LOLZ!!!11one.
As far as "Suck at SL" comment... you havn't played with me in... HOW LONG? If I wa sgood then, or bad then, does not matter, because my play style has changed drasticly. HUGE shinobi fan as of late.
And total dick head.. right.. If I just wanted to be a dick head I'd be sitting here calling nooK an asshat, and replying to all your comments as "LOLZ YOU SUCK PLZ DIE LAWL" like you do to me. HOWEVER, I don't, do I?
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
A[Y]S-Cry-Ed - 30.04.2007, 06:24
ahh i remember the infamous banlist... whats it up to nowadays 1000 names?
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Menthol.Love - 30.04.2007, 06:34
31, actually.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
A[Y]S-Cry-Ed - 30.04.2007, 07:06
wow i'm impressed that u managed to keep your uber banning self in check
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Menthol.Love - 30.04.2007, 07:08
Never was an "uber banning" person. You were just delusional, and then spread the rumor that I was. I banned people who were bad sports, still do. And the banlist is to keep the bad sports out of the game.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
A[Y]S-Cry-Ed - 30.04.2007, 07:13
oh plz at one point you had like 600 ppl that were on your banlist and you were bragging to me about it. then afterwards you went through and took many of the names out but that still left you with about 300 you said
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Menthol.Love - 30.04.2007, 07:18
Subtract a 0. I was banning all leavers (as long as they didn't dc) if they left before we were in their base killing their d00ds. If they had obviously lost, they were fine. But after cleansing the banlist of anyone who was banned for LEAVING it went down to 30, I believe. I do cleansings every so often, giving people second chances.
Really though, get your facts straight before you accuse someone of something.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
A[Y]S-Cry-Ed - 30.04.2007, 07:22
my facts are straight because i clearly remember to typing the numer 6** (can't remember the exact number it was 6 hundred something). but w/e i am not here to argue with u. my comment was supposed to be a light hearted joke. i never would have stated any numbers if you didn't call me "delusional" which i am clearly not.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Menthol.Love - 30.04.2007, 07:38
By saying that you're sure it was a 6** number, then obviously you are.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
A[Y]S-Cry-Ed - 30.04.2007, 07:43
thats what u told me, i dunno if you were lying to me cause u thought having that many names on your banlist would be cool or w/e but it IS what YOU said that long long time ago
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Omerta - 30.04.2007, 10:56
Do you people do anything else but argue and talk shit?
Also, this is going horrificly off-topic.
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Attin - 30.04.2007, 12:19
Omerta wrote: Do you people do anything else but argue and talk shit?
Also, this is going horrificly off-topic.
True... now thats why im posting here to increasy my low post count...
Re: Hero: Raikou Hogosha
Andriejj - 14.05.2007, 07:08
So back to the topic :wink:
One thing I don't like in the new hero is that he doesn't really fit the samurai/ninja/shogun/japanese/BANZAI!!! style of the map. And his spell don't really make a compatible entirety.
Omninoy has most spells connected with freezing, the ones which are not, are still blue-coloured. The same with other heroes.
The new hero has a strange looking mana burning projectile, a thunderstorm, ranged attack(stormy too) and a supporting spell for allied heroes which has a blue effect. This doesn't fit each other.
I'm talking only about the outlook and character of this spell, not their concrete effects(mana burn, slowing and damaging area spell, etc.).
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