Om's guide to Ronin

Samurai Legends
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  • Beteiligte Poster: Omerta - nooK - Kouenzan - tegeus-Cromis - Forbidden - roxas_kh2 - wizard.dark - Skirn - Anton - Andriejj - Lyncor
  • Forum: Samurai Legends
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  • Antworten: 16
  • Forum gestartet am: Mittwoch 06.10.2004
  • Sprache: englisch
  • Link zum Originaltopic: Om's guide to Ronin
  • Letzte Antwort: vor 16 Jahren, 11 Monaten, 4 Tagen, 9 Stunden, 55 Minuten
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    Re: Om's guide to Ronin

    Omerta - 16.09.2006, 18:19

    Om's guide to Ronin
    - Om's guide to Ronin -


    The guy on the right, in case you have trouble figuring it out, silly.


    Introduction:

    Ronin, the samurai without lord. Has a lot of power to kill heros, and even some laning power. His strengths are Flying Death and Kaze, how useful he is, depends on how you combo those two.


    Lets start with skill build:

    lvl1 - Flying Death (FD)
    lvl2 - Airy Charge (AC, Airy)
    lvl3 - FD
    lvl4 - AC
    lvl5 - FD
    lvl6 - Kaze
    lvl7 - FD
    lvl8 - AC
    lvl9 - Kaze
    lvl10 - FD (max)
    lvl11 - AC
    lvl12 - Kaze
    lvl13 - AC (max)
    lvl14 - Death Poem (Poem)
    lvl15 - Kaze
    lvl16 - Poem
    lvl17 - Poem
    lvl18 - Kaze (max)
    lvl19 - Poem
    lvl20 - Poem (max)

    Alternatively, you may level Airy Charge equally with Flying Death, but I prefer to max Flying death ASAP to dish out as much damage as possible with FD-Kaze combo.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I try to keep my item builds fairly cheap and without honor costs, so this may seem weak for some of you.

    Items:


    --- Kegutsu boots [400] (or Skywalker's)
    Good item for 400 gold, increases your movement speed. Gives a direct advantage when opposing enemies without kegutsu boots or Skywalker's. Helps you to escape and chase enemies.


    --- Kanji Stone [1000]
    My personal choise to compensate the high mana costs/low mana. You could also use Ceremonial mask, but I prefer to have the mana right away, not "soon".


    --- Monk Clothes (optional) [500] (non-consumables this far cost 1900 with Kagetsu boots and Monk Clothes)
    Increases your armor, helps you to survive. Your armor with this will be a bit over 45% so it really cuts out the some damage when you chase enemy to towers (or they chase you).


    --- Life potion [200]
    Allows you to stay in lane for longer times without using the fountains, may save your arse if you time using the potion well.


    --- Mana potion [150]
    Same as for life potion. May also save your ass by giving mana to cast spells.


    --- Optional item (Blink dagger or AM potion for example)
    This one is up to you. Blink dagger (for escapes and chases) or Anti-magic potion are often my choices.
    NOTE: If enemy uses anti-magic potion, only Kaze and melee will hurt him. To get rid of the anti-magic shell, buy scrolls of negation.


    Other useful stuff:
    - Helmet of the Dragon (Bonus to your stats)
    - Scroll of Teleportation (To move from area to another, if ally needs help, area is getting sieged or you just gotta get away)
    - Dust of Appearance (to counter Shadowing ninja)
    - Katana, Wakizashi, Ninja-to (boosts your attack, only if you have spare money)

    Excluding items from the lake merchant, I don't really use them and they cost a lot honor anyway.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    About skills:





    Worthy it's name, cause it combos well with Ronin's other skills and its an excellent tool for many things.

    Defensive use:
    1. Stun enemy and run away. Though, I wouldn't suggest doing this unless enemy hero is on melee range. If enemy hero is on low hp (and you have mana), you can turn the tides into your own offense with this.
    2. Hopping where enemy can't reach you, down/up a cliff or over main base wall for example. (NOTE: In my opinion, jumping just to gain distance to enemy wont work. Enemy usually catches you up because of the short pauses before and after leaping)
    3. Avoiding spells. Requires that you can predict or react to enemy actions quick so that you can jump to avoid Rising Dragon or Dragon Souls for example. Time your hop so that you are mid-air when the enemy strike would hit you. You can also jump out of Ninja's net. Remember that you can break channeling spells with Flying death and Kaze.
    4. Slowing down enemy spawns. Needs no explanations.
    5. Supporting fleeing ally, aim your jump to slow down the most dangerous enemy for your ally or kill the weakest chasing enemy.

    Offensive use:
    1. Harassing enemy hero. Target the spell so that it hits enemy hero (and spawns), hit few times and run away.
    2. Cutting out escape. Predict enemy movement and cast Flying death. Allows your allies to catch up and gives you time to land couple strikes.
    3. Direct hero killing, more about this in combos.

    -------------------------------------------------





    Mainly offensive skill, as it can be aimed only on enemies:
    1. Chasing, so simple. Try to target this as far away as possible, but so enough that you will cast the spell. The amount of hits increase with range travelled (speed increased).
    2. Starting or ending combo. More about this later.

    3. Target enemy spawn or hero to jump up/down cliffs, rivers and other unwalkable areas.

    -------------------------------------------------





    I used to level this instead of Airy Charge in versions before 0.8 because you were easily under 500hp at low lvls and Airy sucked arse (in most cases). Does not have real strategies, but improves your sieging and laning when you are low in hp. If you have luck, you might be able to hammer enemy hp down enough to make him piss off if you are chased. It's pretty risky though.

    -------------------------------------------------





    Your main damage dealer with Flying Death.

    Defensive use:
    1. Another skill to slow down enemy during chase. If he gets near enough, just Kaze him and keep running. Also works as support skill if enemy is chasing your ally, you can use it pretty freely cause of low CD.
    EDIT: Balance change in 0.82. Kaze cooldown went way up, due to which I don't suggest doing this. Overall more carefulness suggested when choosing what and when to Kaze.

    Offensive use:
    Damage dealing to kill enemy hero. Check combos section.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    What you readers might be waiting for, combos:


    Airy Charge to Kaze to Flying death - combo:
    Why this order? Why not Flying Death first? Because you can take full use of Airy Charge number of strikes only when you can cast it from far away enough, and enemy might even run away when he/she sees you casting airy charge. It also puts Airy on cooldown so you can use it later again. You will be fairly close after you have cast Airy Charge, so throw in Kaze. This leaves enemy vulnearable for your melee and Flying Death. After this, enemy should be pretty low on hp so you can keep meleeing him and Airy Charge him another time if he starts running. You could also cast Flying Death before Kaze (flavour, also when he does get too far away to cast kaze), but there is smaller chance of missing it after Kaze.

    Flying Death to Kaze - combo: (or vice versa, Kaze to Flying Death)
    The most popular combo because it can be done to support your allies, defend yourself or just for offense. Easy to execute and impossible to stop by victim if you dont give him extra time after landing Flying Death. You can use Airy Charge as finisher for this combo if enemy starts to run away.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Your enemies:


    - No-Daichi Samurai:
    For the simple reason, that his nuke will deal 350 dmg at lvl 5 if you don't manage to avoid it somehow, and it sure hurts. Otherwise you should be able to handle him, as you can cast FD or Kaze to avoid his surround. His blaze shouldn't be a big problem to evade as long as he doesn't have a friend to hold you.

    - Yari Samurai:
    Sometimes it feels like you are attacking a brick wall. Has lots and lots of hp and so he is able to take loads of punishment. Whirling Yari also cannot be evaded when he gets close enough, so don't stay close to him. Stay on your toes with him, even he won't be able to kill you alone unless you mess up.

    - Ronin:
    In my opinion, this pretty much depends on ally support and how are the Flying Deaths timed. If you manage to hit him first with FD and follow up with Kaze, he will be down half hp at least, which might cause him to run allowing you to follow up with Airy Charge. If he Kazes/FDs you to stop Airy, your skills will be out of cooldown soon after his Kaze or FD and you can hand out some more punishment.
    In case you fail and he gets the upper hand, you are obviously in trouble. If you decide to run and he casts Airy, I suggest you either take its full load and keep running (he will stop for a moment after Airy) or cast FD to cut it. Make sure you stun him, otherwise he might just follow up and keep hitting.

    - Ninja:
    His a bit like you, able to deal out lots of damage but won't be able to take much. If he keeps harassing you with Shadow, try to get him stunned or Kazed so you can cut his attack for a moment. I'd just suggest that either stay far enough behind to outrun him when he Shadows or keep playing offensive, focusing him, so that he won't have much room to play his tricks around. Try to avoid his Flying Daggers by either Kazing him (or someone else, Kazing him during Daggers causes funny effect with the downside that he wont get stunned), using Flying Death to get range and possibly stun somebody. Running away can also work just as well to evade it. Remember that you can use Flying Death while being ensnared, so don't hesitate to use Flying Death when he tries to ensnare-shuriken you.

    - Shinobi
    Late game he will be a bit hard to kill cause of the Fear of the Dark and his evade. (that even blocks spells sometimes :<) I wouldn't suggest meleeing him unless he needs only one or two hits, as he just evades and deals out more damage than you after all. Personally I like to wait till he is 3/4 hp or lower, then strike to make him flee, possibly even kill him. I don't consider him a big threat as long as he doesn't have many friends with him - Way of Death becomes far more dangerous with ally support.

    - Yumi Samurai
    In my opinion, she isn't the toughest opponent. Avoid being close to her or she blasts you with Strafe. Pure offense seems to work best, as her hp isn't really high. You may also harass her with Flying Death. Also try to watch her animations so you may guess when and where she places her traps.

    - Warlord
    Wherever he is, spawns tend to mass up. Especially low-mid game bigger spawn waves will cause you trouble as the only laning skill you have is Flying Death. You will likely want to bring a friend with you to handle the spawns, so first focus him and then handle the spawns. If he Teppo's you, stun or Kaze him before he uses Dragon Souls to throw you around in addition to dealing nice amount of damage. If possible, don't let him heal himself and try to make him turn his attention elsewhere from buffing the spawns during siege.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Your allies: (with these guys you do want to team up with)

    - No-Daichi Samurai:
    Rising Dragon is a damn good nuke and he is able to take fairly much damage, so if you are in same lane, let him suck up most of the damage and clear up the spawns (you will take your share of the damage when you chase). Either of you will often deal the last points of damage to kill enemy when the other one can't. I like to cast Airy Charge when he casts Rising Dragon so that enemy is weakened enough for you to kill. Can be also fun to let him cast Blaze, you stun the enemy hero and let him run around him/her for extra damage.

    - Ninja:
    'Cause Ronin and Ninja both deal buttloads of damage. I'd suggest that you do your combo first, after which he ensnare the victim so you both can melee him and your skills have time to get off from cooldown. Also, if you have No-daichi with you, Ninja may ensnare so No-daichi may damage him with Blaze, following up with your Flying death.

    - Warlord:
    Teppo makes hitting enemy with Flying Death easier and Flying Death makes hitting with Dragon Souls easier. He also keeps you both healthy. Especially useful if you have to chase past towers and on the way back you are getting hit bad, possibly even chased.


    These three are your dreamteam members in my opinion - it still doesn't mean that your other allies are useless or less valuable. Try to find synergies and combos on the field and adapt to the situation.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    General Tips:

    - Buy an ashigaru to bring you items. This way you don't have to leave lane to get stuff. Remember to be careful with microing ashigaru so that you don't get him killed. If you are at upper mid, take use of the teleporter in your base.
    - Don't sit next to spawns taking damage. If they attack you, run a bit away and return to battle.
    - Personally I often stay a bit back, avoiding focus. When battle becomes intensive, my allies are losing or gaining upper hand, I enter battle with full force and fight intensively for a moment, then pull back again. This allows your skills, namely Kaze, recover from cooldown and oneself to regenerate lost mana/life before you are back in battle.



    Re: Om's guide to Ronin

    nooK - 16.09.2006, 22:33


    Wow first SL heroguide and a very good one :D
    A must read for every Ronin player, he knows what he`s talking about as I know from experience..stop pwning me om :wink:



    Re: Om's guide to Ronin

    Kouenzan - 17.09.2006, 07:00


    lawl nice ronin guide. i usually get death poem early game but this guide enlightens me (i dunno why i get it :P)

    is it worthy to get some archers to accompany you? just like synergy with flying death :)



    Re: Om's guide to Ronin

    Omerta - 17.09.2006, 08:22


    I used to get Poem in 0.7 'cause Airy was kinda crippled, but imo it isn't worth it anymore now that Airy works as it should.


    Killing an elite archer awards you 40gp and they are relatively easy to take out, but if you feel like taking the risk, try it out.



    Re: Om's guide to Ronin

    Kouenzan - 17.09.2006, 10:33


    lawl tried recently. having elite archers to accompany you is great but when v.s. yumi/warlord, they are toasted easily :(



    Re: Om's guide to Ronin

    Omerta - 06.10.2006, 15:40


    Now that 0.82 is out and Ronin has been nerfed, you will have to be overall more selective with your offense, especially Kazes due to the cooldown being increased quite a bit. Yet, same strategies should still work, as long as you don't waste time in Kaze-FD combo. (Hit'n run strategies also suggested, wait till enemy is 3/4 or 1/2 in hp before you unleash the full potential and if necessary, harass him a bit with kaze and airy before)



    Re: Om's guide to Ronin

    tegeus-Cromis - 06.10.2006, 18:11


    Like Om said, all it means is that where previously you got the best results from just charging in and asking questions later, you now have to measure your opponents' health vs the strength of your combo before engaging in earnest. Kaze --> FD --> Airy is still a hell of a lot of damage.



    Re: Om's guide to Ronin

    Forbidden - 17.10.2006, 22:00


    I feel like a testdummy for Om's No-Daichi team up reccomendation. He always lets me take all the beating :shock: . Sure No-Daichi has almost 2x Ronins' hp so he's better cannonfodder, but dude that's not a fun role :) .



    Re: Om's guide to Ronin

    roxas_kh2 - 03.03.2007, 03:27


    cool guide, but i have troubles with no dachi samurai still, his ultimate is so strong and using your ulti one one of them is not good because there are still other copies and it explodes when killed.. :shock:



    Re: Om's guide to Ronin

    Omerta - 03.03.2007, 08:57


    Yeah, generally it's bad, but it should break the surround formation if you can't escape by running or by FD before they melee you to death. Since you can run down cliffs with Airy charge, it might also work for slipping out but I'm too lazy to test it.

    You may try weakening the images with FD but run away early enough after FD so you won't take damage from their melee hits.



    Re: Om's guide to Ronin

    wizard.dark - 04.03.2007, 14:49


    His ulti is fearly weak now especialy in team battles.Iv had a "pro" dachi try to use it to run from me once from the top mid lane by making all clones go to diff directions which is fairly hard to do when they are below half hp.I chased down all but 1 clone which really had no way to go so eventualy he ran into a tower or 2 and died.The blast after death is prety simple to avoid if you can back off just a bit after killing a copy.



    Re: Om's guide to Ronin

    Skirn - 05.03.2007, 03:50


    Wizard, if that was really a good player, it's kind of sad.

    Anyway, the main issue most people have with the Dachi when being a Ronin isn't the surrounding or physical attacks, it's the explosion that nearly kills the Ronin half the time. Most people kill them with Flying Death, meaning you can not avoid the explosion afterwards.

    My suggestion is the same as Omerta's, only harass the copies, don't aim to kill them. Let creeps/someone else take them out for you.



    Re: Om's guide to Ronin

    Anton - 05.03.2007, 04:54


    wizard did you say kaza is week? or order of the dragon is week? cos nether are week now in my opinion, kaza is the ganking move of death, also if you open with dragon warriors and suicide all but one on a hero just as you are about to reform you can kick peoples ass....



    Re: Om's guide to Ronin

    wizard.dark - 05.03.2007, 14:53


    Uh kaze isnt weak.....the order of the dragon is a weak ability in my oppinion.Even when you zerg with a team on top or bottom the copies die out prety fast.And if u send 1 copy back it will probably die unless you send it way back to your bases fountain.Iv caught a full health lvl 20 dachis copy at the bottom fountain once as a ronin it was funny><the only time i personaly use this ability is when i want to take the enemy down with me...which is rare cause most the time id just try to run.



    Re: Om's guide to Ronin

    Andriejj - 22.04.2007, 08:28


    A little offtopic- best hero against no-dachi's ultimate, when he splits, is Onmyoji, his offensive spells(ulti and a basic one, best used it that order), pawn clones quickly.



    Re: Om's guide to Ronin

    Lyncor - 24.04.2007, 05:58


    I'd have to disagree with that. Best hero vs the Dragon Warriors? Ninja.

    Flying Daggers = They're all screwed. If he manages to run one away.. well, it's ninja. Chase it down and slaughter it.



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