Beta-testing?

Samurai Legends
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  • Beteiligte Poster: tegeus-Cromis - nooK - Aray - IMassAcolyte - Kouenzan - Metal Sonic - Galefury - roxas_kh2 - Omerta - Forbidden - Skirn - Davis - Anton - Anonymous
  • Forum: Samurai Legends
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  • Antworten: 56
  • Forum gestartet am: Mittwoch 06.10.2004
  • Sprache: englisch
  • Link zum Originaltopic: Beta-testing?
  • Letzte Antwort: vor 17 Jahren, 7 Monaten, 11 Tagen, 8 Stunden, 40 Minuten
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    Re: Beta-testing?

    tegeus-Cromis - 03.06.2006, 19:14

    Beta-testing?
    Do you currently have beta-testers? If so, can I become one, and if not, have you considered getting the people on this forum to beta-test?



    Re: Beta-testing?

    nooK - 03.06.2006, 20:57


    No I don´t have any real testers. What I would like to have would be a group of people (3vs3 would be ok), but it´s hard to find people who are online on the same times. Also beta testers must know that there are always bugs when a betatest starts and not start bitching when they find some imbalances, missing things or whatever.
    But of course you can be a beta tester, if we can´t put a real betatest team together you can at least test it in singleplayer ;)



    Re: Beta-testing?

    tegeus-Cromis - 03.06.2006, 21:34


    I keep pretty irregular hours (am in a transitional period between national service and college right now), and I have played many games with IMassAcolytes, so that's two at least who would feasibly be on at the same time. Perhaps we could organise set times on this forum? I think it would be a great help to balancing; it is sometimes difficult to tell what is good and what is not when playing against people who have never played the game before.

    Since it's not like DotA-popular or whatever, I take it there would not be a huge concern about the map getting about? As in, would there be an issue with my testing it with friends who you have not spoken to? I would not host it publicly, of course, balance issues being what they are.



    Re: Beta-testing?

    tegeus-Cromis - 03.06.2006, 21:49


    Oh, and is it true that GGClient almost eliminates lag? If so I imagine it would be much easier to arrange a game with the users (read: potential beta-testers :P) on the forum using that. I haven't tried it yet.



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Aray - 03.06.2006, 23:06


    Well yes, it does eliminate lag as long as the host and the players doesn't live on each side of the planet. GG-client is very DotA-sided at the moment though, but me and nooK did succeed in hosting a 4v4 game there, so just start hosting games and maybe more people will start playing it :) I think having the next version out would be best before trying though.



    Re: Beta-testing?

    nooK - 03.06.2006, 23:46


    Quote: I keep pretty irregular hours (am in a transitional period between national service and college right now), and I have played many games with IMassAcolytes, so that's two at least who would feasibly be on at the same time. Perhaps we could organise set times on this forum? I think it would be a great help to balancing; it is sometimes difficult to tell what is good and what is not when playing against people who have never played the game before.
    Yes would be great if we could arrange some betatests (when the beta is ready :P) on Ggc.
    Else I prefer hosting on Bnet, because on Bnet there are just more people who join. This map needs to be spread which works easier on Bnet.

    Quote: Since it's not like DotA-popular or whatever, I take it there would not be a huge concern about the map getting about? As in, would there be an issue with my testing it with friends who you have not spoken to? I would not host it publicly, of course, balance issues being what they are.
    I won`t upload the beta on this page, don´t want beta versions spreading around. Betatesters will gain a link from me, of course.
    And you can play it with your friends no problem, would be cool if you could do some 3on3 or 4on4 with them.



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Aray - 04.06.2006, 00:27


    Could you sign me up as a beta-tester? :) I couldn't host the beta on GGC then since you don't want it spread around, though I don't think that would be a big problem, since most people on ggc are too lazy to further host a new game like that themselves ;P I always play wc3 at 1430-1600 (GMT+0). Does anyone else have the opportunity to play at that time?..



    Re: Beta-testing?

    IMassAcolyte - 04.06.2006, 01:50


    i would be glad to participate in beta testing. Just name the time and place, ill be there.



    Re: Beta-testing?

    tegeus-Cromis - 04.06.2006, 10:52


    Aray: Quote: Well yes, it does eliminate lag as long as the host and the players doesn't live on each side of the planet.

    Eh, I thought the hype was that it allowed players who actually are on different sides of the planet to play each other with reasonable response times. (I particularly remember inDe_eD of DotA fame raving about it allowing fair contests of skill between US and Euro clans.) Is this the case?

    Quote: I always play wc3 at 1430-1600 (GMT+0). Does anyone else have the opportunity to play at that time?..

    I could, though I am not currently using GGC.

    nooK: Quote: I won`t upload the beta on this page, don´t want beta versions spreading around. Betatesters will gain a link from me, of course.
    And you can play it with your friends no problem, would be cool if you could do some 3on3 or 4on4 with them.

    Okay, cool.



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Kouenzan - 04.06.2006, 11:19


    sign me in also, i'm a solo player beta-tester :P



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Metal Sonic - 04.06.2006, 13:06


    I'm usually on quite a bit, so if there's an official beta thingy, I'm in :wink:



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Aray - 04.06.2006, 13:32


    Quote: Eh, I thought the hype was that it allowed players who actually are on different sides of the planet to play each other with reasonable response times. (I particularly remember inDe_eD of DotA fame raving about it allowing fair contests of skill between US and Euro clans.) Is this the case? - Well, yes. But it's like this: On b.net, having a very good connection helps reduce some lag for people far away, but there's still the constant b.net-lag. On ggc, you will experience no lag even if you have a weak connection and play with people who live in closeby countries. But with a weak connection, the same thing happens as it does on b.net; people who live far away from you will lag as hell. But if you are so lucky to have a pretty strong connection, then even people living on the other side of the planet wont experience any lag when playing with you on GG-Client.



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Metal Sonic - 04.06.2006, 13:37


    Err... May I ask what exactly this GG-Client is and where I can find it? :P



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Kouenzan - 04.06.2006, 13:55


    it's a 3rd party prog and it's like hamachi

    site is
    gg-gaming.com i'm not sure

    check dotaportal.com they have a forum on gg client.. :)



    Re: Beta-testing?

    IMassAcolyte - 04.06.2006, 18:57


    Im in as well. The beta should be awesome from the looks of all the suggestions. the next version will be a hell of a hit :D



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Aray - 04.06.2006, 21:00


    it's gg-game.com :)be sure to read how to use it in forums. There's a few toturials there. It's really easy to learn though.



    Re: Beta-testing?

    nooK - 10.06.2006, 13:17


    I´m looking forward to this, but I think you`ll all own me, I suck at my own game :P



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Galefury - 10.06.2006, 13:26


    Oh yes, you do. :D
    BTW I can play Warcraft more again, having solved my PC problems.



    Re: Beta-testing?

    tegeus-Cromis - 10.06.2006, 16:01


    Heh, that is all right. I hear Guinsoo was pretty hopeless at DotA. :P

    Quite aside from the beta (which, given the lack of a terrainer last I heard, is presumably some way away), how about we organise some games on GG-Client using the current version? I'd be interested to play against other people who have given the game some thought, rather than people who just dled it and will probably call it 'gay' and leave in 5 minutes time. :P I have not gotten GGC yet, but I intend to dl it sometime today or tomorrow. I'm lazy like that. :P



    Re: Beta-testing?

    roxas_kh2 - 13.06.2006, 11:43


    i could beta test, id like to! since this's new id like to help improve it



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Aray - 01.07.2006, 16:27


    It's been so long since the last version :( Will there be something new for us to beta-test soon? :( Doesn't even have to be finished versions... Those of us who have signed up as testers could just play it in single only to prevent the unfinished version of going official...


    Here's my available times:

    (Everything is in GMT+0. That's my time -2. I'm in GMT+1, but in summertime we add an hour ^^ )

    Monday-
    Thursday: 15:00-1830
    Friday: 15:00-21:30
    Saturday: 14:00-21:30
    Sunday: 14:00-18:30

    Of course, I'm now planning to spend all these hours on testing. Again, this is the time wich I am available, so when an hour or two fits with everyone else, that's when we can try to arrange the standard tests.

    Where we do these tests (between B.net and GGC that is) can be decided later. But I suggest we start out on B.Net Northrend (europe), get a standard room established there, and then we can see wether or not we want to (/can) change to GGC for later games.


    For those who are wondering, this is GGC:
    http://www.gg-game.com
    and in this link you should find everything you need to know about GGC:
    http://www.gg-game.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=1310&extra=page%3D1

    Enjoy!



    Re: Beta-testing?

    tegeus-Cromis - 02.07.2006, 18:05


    Until the end of this month, I will be available most any time. Tell me when you guys are available and I will almost certainly be able to fit it in. Beyond this month, I can't say for sure yet, as I'll be entering college in August.

    P.S. nooK, beta! When??



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Omerta - 02.07.2006, 19:52


    I'll be testing with you if we can get in contact. On northrend, you can find me as omerta. In irc, @quakenet channel #tidesofblood. MSN can be found in my profile.



    Re: Beta-testing?

    nooK - 02.07.2006, 22:17


    It all depends on when Rising_Dusk finishes Chill Wind. I decided to keep the No-Dachi out of the beta (and maybe the next version), but I think I added enough stuf to make the new version exciting and it has much better gameplay (at least I hope so).
    Today I gave the ninjas spawned by Shrines of Night a new ability to make them a alternative to the Shrine of Strength.



    Re: Beta-testing?

    tegeus-Cromis - 02.07.2006, 22:34


    I see.

    Mind if I ask what's up with the No Dachi? I wouldn't have thought him to be such a problematic hero, coding- or balance-wise; he's just a Strength damage hero. . . .



    Re: Beta-testing?

    nooK - 02.07.2006, 22:59


    I just don´t feel good with any ultimate ideas, I though of giving him a morph spell als ulti, where he gains better/different spells than in his normal form, and looks different.
    -> http://www.l5r.com/resources/l5r_de_crane_800.jpg

    So if the Onmyoji is ready we will start beta testing, maybe No_dachi will then be included with a filler ultimate until the morph is done or so.



    Re: Beta-testing?

    tegeus-Cromis - 03.07.2006, 07:44


    Cool. Can't wait.

    Re: the No Dachi, don't you think it'd be a bit weird to have the only two Strength heroes in the game both have morph ultimates? Somehow I think most heroes with crit strike are better off with a more straightforward ultimate rather than something fancy that gives them new spells, but maybe that's just me.

    What's his current skillset? Same as the last time I asked? I could have another crack at this guy, if you want.



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Forbidden - 03.07.2006, 10:31


    No-Daichi is Samanosuke Akechi, right? The main character of Onimusha. Since you already have the Yari Samurai morphing into an Oni it would be weird if they both had the same ultimate. Perhaps you could give him something that has to do with the game as an ultimate. I dont know what skills he has so far, but in the game he sucks the souls of the dead with the gauntlet the Oni gave him to power himself up. Perhaps you could give him kind of a big self heal as if he sucked the souls of all dead units around him. Healing hp, mp and whatever else you can think of. And as you said it could only be a temporary filler for now. Perhaps a bit of an inhuman skill but anyway, just a suggestion.



    Re: Beta-testing?

    tegeus-Cromis - 03.07.2006, 16:29


    I would be much more in favour of leaving Onimusha out of it as much as possible and just giving him cool but relatively normal warrior skills. The only Onimusha thing I think could fit is some sort of Issen-inspired ability. :P



    Re: Beta-testing?

    nooK - 03.07.2006, 18:00


    Blaze
    Using this technique the No-Dachi Samurai leaves flames when walking which stay for 5 seconds and deal damage every half second.

    "Pain is the fire that tempers wisdom!"

    Level 1 - 7 damage, lasts 7 sec
    Level 2 - 9 damage, lasts 9 sec
    Level 3 - 11 damage, lasts 11 sec
    Level 4 - 13 damage, lasts 13 sec
    Level 5 - 15 damage, lasts 15 sec

    Rising Dragon
    The No-Daichi Samurai rises up into the air, then he crushes down by delievering a fatal hit to the target.

    "My blade, my fellow..."

    Level 1 - 150 damage
    Level 2 - 200 damage
    Level 3 - 250 damage
    Level 4 - 300 damage
    Level 5 - 350 damage


    No-Dachi Skills
    The samurai spent years to achieve perfect control over his weapon. This training gives him a chance to deal multiple damage.

    "Become one with the blade!!"

    Level 1 - 15% chance to do 1.5x dmg
    Level 2 - 15% chance to do 2.0x dmg
    Level 3 - 20% chance to do 2.0x dmg
    Level 4 - 20% chance to do 2.5x dmg
    Level 5 - 25% chance to do 2.5x dmg



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Forbidden - 04.07.2006, 23:05


    Okey dokey. I want to clear up a bit on who is who and where. If were going to arrange betatests, I'd like to make some sort of easy-to-read list of all those who are willing to beta-test an on what server they play on. Perhaps if everyone pm's me, or nooK or whoever wants to arrange the betatests, just their account name and server what they are playing on. And those who are able to play on servers farther away from their regular please tell it somehow simply. For example like this:

    Account name: - insert name -
    Local server: - Northrend/Azeroth/etc. -
    Able to play anywhere: - yes/no -

    The reason I ask for this is that I can't make much sense of all thats written on the forums right now on who is who and where. I just know that almost everyone is willing to betatest but if we do it, then on what server and when? We really need to work for arranging this thing. Just talking about it isn't getting us anywhere. If no one else is willing then I can gather the names and info. If you pm it to me that is.



    Re: Beta-testing?

    nooK - 05.07.2006, 11:43


    We will play via GGC, so all can participate.



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Kouenzan - 06.07.2006, 11:15


    too bad can't join the party

    anyway, is the beta out now? :lol:



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Omerta - 07.07.2006, 19:53


    Played two games of closed 8.0 beta via GGC today. God, it's hawt.

    1st game: Nook v Me
    I drooled at the model and picked Onmyonji. Nook picked Ronin.
    Onmyonjis Frostlance graphics caught my attention first. Sweet, damn sweet. Even with my low graphic settings.
    Second thing that caught my attention was boosted Airy Charge. Nook rushed out of nowhere goddamn quick and sliced out about 100dmg.
    Shikagami worked well. It didn't break Airy Charge when Nook was hitting me, but it blocked Airy Charge while Nook was just running towards me. Graphics also looked good.
    I missed my first cast of Fujin's Breath because I managed to scroll a bit away, but I saw the second one and I like it. I ended up pwning Nook because I underleveled him with Frostlance, 4 kills and one death. I like the new potions. They don't have value in combat, but out of combat and some during chase.
    Also, Fujin's breath > my computer :<

    2nd game: Nook & Galefury vs Me
    This time I picked Ronin (<3), Nook No-Daichi and Galefury took Onmyonji. Gale ended up in top lane, whereas I and Nook bottom lane. (again)
    Yet again, I'm amazed by the graphics. No-Daichi's Rising Dragon looked far sweeter than Pirate's Jolly Roger Hoist in TOB. Blaze was weak, but it looked good. Game stayed equal until I changed to top lane and Airy Charged Gale to death right away. (now he hates me :'C)
    Nook and Gale tried to nuke me out few times and almost succeeded in it. Had to run away few times with HP around 100 or even less. Later on, I started to score kills. First to low hp Nook with Flying Death-Kaze combo, later with Airy Charge too. (which pwns at chasing now)
    Game ended when Nook left to do some changes. I had 8 kills, 0 deaths. No doubt that next version will pwn.



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Skirn - 08.07.2006, 12:17


    Whelp, Tegeus and I have now beta-tested .8, and I have to say, I'm looking forward to it. The potion change feels much better then an instant heal, and surprisingly, the reduced regeneration on the fountains is more fitting as well (Though, it was part of the reason nooK and Tegeus managed to rush through towers to finish me off at the fountain...Grr...) I love the changes to the Ronin, Airy charge is now what you'd expect from the tooltip, and Kaze's damage is fitting. However, all that said I decided to do a few solo games on my own after the test to check the news heroes, and here's exactly what I think of them.

    Onmyonji: Briefly, I like the new range hero, his lack of health but heavy nuking power make him a fun kill before being killed kind of hero, which is a nice change of pace from how most frost heroes work. In more detail of each skill however...

    Frostlance: At the moment, I'd have to say this is an overpowered shockwave. It can badly wound an entire army, which wouldn't be to bad if it didn't also move quick enough to be nearly undodgable to heroes. The low cooldown, and the high amount of mana that the Onmyonji has makes Frostlance unbelievably powerful at the moment, but it doesn't seem that hard to balance out. You could increase the cooldown, or lower the damage to fix that easily. However, I have to say what might make frostlance very...interesting...Is if you kept it the way it was, but instead of acting like a shockwave, it works like a lance, stopping after it hits the first enemy unit (Kind of like the way the shurikens work.) Of course, it could just as easily be fixed the other ways, just a random idea.

    Shikagami: ...I love this skill. I just love this skill, even if I learned you can go through it with Kaze against Tegeus. It's simply such an awesome idea for a skill, not overpowered, but very skill based in a survival spell. I can see so many possibilities with it. From stopping dragon soul from killing you, to tanking a shotgun strafe.

    Fujin's Breath: This needs a nerf. The tooltip makes it look like it'll be fine, but the actual spell just makes far to many icecrystals. At level 2, it can kill an entire spawn wave in one shot. It can almost do that at level 1! And unlike Flying Daggers, you don't put yourself in danger when it finishes, so it just ends up being a heavy amount of AoE damage. If less icecrystals are made, it'll be a lot more ... fair.

    No-Dachi: I'll be blunt, I don't like strength heroes. I wasn't expecting to like No-Dachi from the start but...I wasn't expecting that I'd actually hate him. I'll go in more detail on a skill to skill basis.

    Blaze: Spell looks pretty, spell has a good concept. Spell does so little damage it's practically worthless. Honestly, at level 6 I could make a flame on archers, and at the end, the archers would still be alive (Barely granted, but usually they don't stop to attack to actually stay in the blaze anyway) it barely hurts the spawns unless you tank them in the fires, and I already know most heroes will just avoid it altogether. If blaze either A: Did more damage. Or B: Had the minor damage if 'around' the flames and did more damage 'inside' the flames. It'd be a great skill, but at the moment, it just looks pretty.

    No-Dachi Skills: It's critical strike. Sure, it's fitting, but it just feels so...dull.

    Rising Dragon: I really wasn't expecting to dislike this skill, but I do, and I know why. It's a ranged undodgable nuke, the only one of it's kind in SL. Unlike every other skill, it's pretty much a 'You're going to take the damage no matter what you do.' There's not enough time to do a skill dodge (Like jumping, or way of deathing) and it doesn't matter if you're moving, only an Onmyonji might have enough time to hit a hotkey before it hits. Now, in all honesty, it doesn't really 'need' to be changed (Doesn't really do that much damage, no extra effect, puts No-dachi in danger.) But I don't like it.

    Overall, I'm greatly looking forward to .8, I think it'll be awesome after the one beta-test I did, keep up the good work nooK.



    Re: Beta-testing?

    nooK - 08.07.2006, 12:54


    Ok thanks for your nice comments, I will comment some things now:

    Quote: Frostlance: At the moment, I'd have to say this is an overpowered shockwave. It can badly wound an entire army, which wouldn't be to bad if it didn't also move quick enough to be nearly undodgable to heroes. The low cooldown, and the high amount of mana that the Onmyonji has makes Frostlance unbelievably powerful at the moment, but it doesn't seem that hard to balance out. You could increase the cooldown, or lower the damage to fix that easily. However, I have to say what might make frostlance very...interesting...Is if you kept it the way it was, but instead of acting like a shockwave, it works like a lance, stopping after it hits the first enemy unit (Kind of like the way the shurikens work.) Of course, it could just as easily be fixed the other ways, just a random idea.
    Will stay the same, except dealing less damage so the Frostlance + Funjin´s Breath combo isn´t so imba.

    Quote: Shikagami: ...I love this skill. I just love this skill, even if I learned you can go through it with Kaze against Tegeus. It's simply such an awesome idea for a skill, not overpowered, but very skill based in a survival spell. I can see so many possibilities with it. From stopping dragon soul from killing you, to tanking a shotgun strafe.
    Yes it`s TEH skill-skill =) I love it too, it offers you so many possibilities =)

    Quote: Fujin's Breath: This needs a nerf. The tooltip makes it look like it'll be fine, but the actual spell just makes far to many icecrystals. At level 2, it can kill an entire spawn wave in one shot. It can almost do that at level 1! And unlike Flying Daggers, you don't put yourself in danger when it finishes, so it just ends up being a heavy amount of AoE damage. If less icecrystals are made, it'll be a lot more ... fair.
    I´ll look.


    Quote: Blaze: Spell looks pretty, spell has a good concept. Spell does so little damage it's practically worthless. Honestly, at level 6 I could make a flame on archers, and at the end, the archers would still be alive (Barely granted, but usually they don't stop to attack to actually stay in the blaze anyway) it barely hurts the spawns unless you tank them in the fires, and I already know most heroes will just avoid it altogether. If blaze either A: Did more damage. Or B: Had the minor damage if 'around' the flames and did more damage 'inside' the flames. It'd be a great skill, but at the moment, it just looks pretty.
    More damafe but flames stay for a shorter duration.

    Quote: Rising Dragon: I really wasn't expecting to dislike this skill, but I do, and I know why. It's a ranged undodgable nuke, the only one of it's kind in SL. Unlike every other skill, it's pretty much a 'You're going to take the damage no matter what you do.' There's not enough time to do a skill dodge (Like jumping, or way of deathing) and it doesn't matter if you're moving, only an Onmyonji might have enough time to hit a hotkey before it hits. Now, in all honesty, it doesn't really 'need' to be changed (Doesn't really do that much damage, no extra effect, puts No-dachi in danger.) But I don't like it.
    I think it`s quite fair, allows chasing and escaping to some extent but also puts you in danger. There are already a lot of skills which can be dodged in SL so I think this one is fine.



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Omerta - 08.07.2006, 13:12


    Skirn wrote: Rising Dragon: I really wasn't expecting to dislike this skill, but I do, and I know why. It's a ranged undodgable nuke, the only one of it's kind in SL. Unlike every other skill, it's pretty much a 'You're going to take the damage no matter what you do.' There's not enough time to do a skill dodge (Like jumping, or way of deathing) and it doesn't matter if you're moving, only an Onmyonji might have enough time to hit a hotkey before it hits. Now, in all honesty, it doesn't really 'need' to be changed (Doesn't really do that much damage, no extra effect, puts No-dachi in danger.) But I don't like it.
    I kinda proved this point false when playing against Nook and Gale in B1.



    Re: Beta-testing?

    tegeus-Cromis - 08.07.2006, 23:05


    Here's what I think.

    Frostlance: A nerf is needed, but go easy on the damage. At the most reduce it by 5-10 per level, for a final damage at level 5 of 250-275. Instead, the main nerf should come in the form of a 10-15 mana increase to casting cost, and--and this is the crucial bit--a 1 second casting delay. It would make a world of difference. On another note, maybe it could use a renaming, as it does not look like a lance at all, nor does it act like one.

    Shikigami: Just about perfect. Might want to look into its interaction with Kaze, though, as has been mentioned. Also, I was netted while I had this skill on, and the net still held me, contrary to what you'd indicated earlier. As far as the animation is concerned, it looks cool, but after playing with the Onmyoji a few more times in singleplayer, it occurs to me that it actually does not much resemble any sort of magic shield at all, nor does it resemble protecting spirits. Perhaps there's something more suitable? A minor point, though. Gameplay comes first. :)

    Fujin's Breath: Rather imba! The problem, IMHO, is not the damage or the number of icicles, but rather the fast speed of the projectile. Cut the speed of the main projectile by ~35% and I think it will be fine.

    Rising Dragon is fine by me--it's less powerful than a standard blink strike, so I can't find a reason to complain about its guaranteed damage. BTW Skirn, Teppo is also a virtually undodgeable nuke, so this skills isn't really the only one of its kind in SL. My suggestion: give the skill a <1 second casting delay (so your enemy can see it's coming), but add maybe 50 range to it to compensate.

    Blaze sucks balls. Simply put, no one's going to spend more than a second or two on the flames, and even if they stayed for the full duration, the damage is still far from impressive. What's the point? Creeping? I'd rather just go for last hits. Pushing? Not very efficient. Chasing? Useless. Being chased? It won't stop anyone. My suggestion: increase the AOE ever so slightly, and give the flames a moderate movement speed slowing effect (20-25%) while on the flames, with the slow effect and the damage per second lasting a few seconds after moving away from them (1 at lvl 1 up to 5 at level 5). Then all would be well with this skill.

    Now that I've seen the No Dachi's skills in-game, I can see why you didn't find any of my suggestions for his ulti suitable. Hmmm. Let me think about this.

    Aside from the new heroes, most things are working well. The potion change does exactly what I hoped it would, and is very welcome. Ceremonial Mask still needs a buff, though; 400 gold for 25% mana regen just does not cut it. It needs to be 50% to be worthwhile.

    The ninja ability seems a little underwhelming. I've played around with it and I find you really need to manually cast it on the enemy cavalry each and every time to get a noticeable pushing effect from it, so I don't know if it's really worthwhile. It doesn't help that ninja are so fragile that one sometimes doesn't even have time to cast it manually before the ninja dies. Would it be possible for you to make ninja cast it on the highest HP unit by default when set on autocast? It would be good if it would target heroes first, too.

    I'll post more comments as they occur to me. Overall, great job. :D



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Aray - 09.07.2006, 10:43


    Oh, can't I plz get a copy of this beta!? I wont redestribute it, I can't even host, I just want to try this game, and I'm so busy nowdays that I don't have time for a game at GGC :'( How long untill official release btw?



    Re: Beta-testing?

    tegeus-Cromis - 09.07.2006, 15:35


    PM me your email address and I will send it to you.



    Re: Beta-testing?

    tegeus-Cromis - 09.07.2006, 17:04


    Okay, more on the new spawn Ninja: scratch that previous post. I have to admit that I was theorycrafting there. :P Now that I actually try it, I find that the point is moot, as the ability is currently set to auto-cast and cannot, it seems, be turned off. This means you almost never get to manually cast it successfully. I assume this is a bug. May I suggest that in addition to fixing this so it can actually be turned off (and making it target heroes/highest HP units first, if possible), add an option to the Shrine of Night itself that lets you toggle between spawning Ninja with autocast on and spawning Ninja with autocast off. This makes it easier if you wish to constantly micro the Ninja in a particular lane, while allowing you to quickly set it to spawn Ninja with autocast on if you wish to direct your attentions elsewhere.

    I have also observed that when you do manage to manual cast successfully, the Ninja will lose the orders it spawn with (i.e. attack ground at the opposite end of the map), resulting in it standing around doing nothing if it survives the wave without any further targets aggroing it onward. Can this be fixed?



    Re: Beta-testing?

    nooK - 09.07.2006, 22:54


    Quote: Frostlance: A nerf is needed, but go easy on the damage. At the most reduce it by 5-10 per level, for a final damage at level 5 of 250-275. Instead, the main nerf should come in the form of a 10-15 mana increase to casting cost, and--and this is the crucial bit--a 1 second casting delay. It would make a world of difference. On another note, maybe it could use a renaming, as it does not look like a lance at all, nor does it act like one.
    Damage is now : 80/120/160/200/240

    Quote: Shikigami: Just about perfect. Might want to look into its interaction with Kaze, though, as has been mentioned. Also, I was netted while I had this skill on, and the net still held me, contrary to what you'd indicated earlier. As far as the animation is concerned, it looks cool, but after playing with the Onmyoji a few more times in singleplayer, it occurs to me that it actually does not much resemble any sort of magic shield at all, nor does it resemble protecting spirits. Perhaps there's something more suitable? A minor point, though. Gameplay comes first.
    Increased mana cost from 40 to 50. I like the effect :)

    Quote: Fujin's Breath: Rather imba! The problem, IMHO, is not the damage or the number of icicles, but rather the fast speed of the projectile. Cut the speed of the main projectile by ~35% and I think it will be fine.
    Decreased movement speed from 500 to 350, damage may still need tweaks but we`ll see in B3.


    Quote: Blaze sucks balls. Simply put, no one's going to spend more than a second or two on the flames, and even if they stayed for the full duration, the damage is still far from impressive. What's the point? Creeping? I'd rather just go for last hits. Pushing? Not very efficient. Chasing? Useless. Being chased? It won't stop anyone. My suggestion: increase the AOE ever so slightly, and give the flames a moderate movement speed slowing effect (20-25%) while on the flames, with the slow effect and the damage per second lasting a few seconds after moving away from them (1 at lvl 1 up to 5 at level 5). Then all would be well with this skill.
    Flames only stay for 3 seconds now, but deal much more damage. Maybe too imba now, we`ll see -> B3.

    Quote: Aside from the new heroes, most things are working well. The potion change does exactly what I hoped it would, and is very welcome. Ceremonial Mask still needs a buff, though; 400 gold for 25% mana regen just does not cut it. It needs to be 50% to be worthwhile.
    It´s 40% now.

    About the ninjas:
    The thing with the orders sucks, plus it seems the "autocast" (even if autocast is off, the computer player casts the skill) can`t be turned off.
    So I did this:
    Reduce cooldown from 10s to 5s
    Decreases armor now by 8 instead of 5.

    Should be worth it now.



    Re: Beta-testing?

    tegeus-Cromis - 09.07.2006, 23:24


    All the changes you just mentioned sound good, except for Blaze for which I'll hold my judgement till I see the new version in-game (I still can't see its use at the moment).

    WRT Frostlance, I'm embarassed to say that now that I try it again, I see that it actually has a noticeable casting time already. The lag in the game we played made it seem instant to me. . . .

    (I notice that I flat-out contradict myself--first I said I'd 'played around a bit' with the Ninja castable, then I said it was theorycraft. What I mean is that I tried it a few times during the game with Skirn, Ferret and nooK and extrapolated from there, but additional tries in single-player got me to notice the problem.)

    A few more things:

    I'm pretty sure the voice set you used for the Onmyoji is one I recommended, in which case I have to apologise for such a bone-headed suggestion. You can hear the Farseer's wolf barking in the background--I don't know how I missed it earlier--and that's just not right. What's more, the voice is just too old and grizzly. Try the Lich voice set instead.

    The new Ninja voice set, which I also suggested, is also pretty terrible. :oops: It's kind of embarassing, really--I listened to it (and the Farseer's) in a normal map and thought they fit really well, but now that I see/hear the model and the voiceset in combination, I realise that it's actually a very bad fit. Probably the voice set currently used by the merc Ninja would be best for the hero.

    Could some sort of animation for Blaze be added to the No Dachi himself? The way it is now, it looks pretty strange when he uses Blaze and then does Rising Dragon, as there are no flames when he is in the air. Adding the burn animation to the hero himself would look much cooler.

    The blink dagger has no honour cost--surely this isn't right? Skywalker Boots need honour, so blink definitely should. Either that or remove the honour cost from Skywalker. To be frank, I think removing it from Skywalker would be the better option, as the honour cost often means that the first hero to get a kill will get it immediately, making it impossible for his opponent to kill him in return and probably ensuring him a couple more kills. A vital utility item like Skywalker shouldn't be dependent on honour.

    As for Skywalker itself, I think the cooldown is now intolerably long. It seemed long even when the duration of the effect was insanely long; now the cooldown seems never-ending. Reduce it a little, please.

    The cast range on Frostlance and Fujin's Breath is much shorter than the actual range of the projectile. If there's no compelling reason for this (and I don't think there is), could the cast range be increased to match the actual range? It wouldn't make the skill any better in the hands of an experienced player, but would make it much more user-friendly for those new to the game/hero. Oh, and there should definitely be something in the Fujin's Breath description to say let the player know just how much slow it inflicts.

    An inconsequential bug, but the two Yari Ashigaru yhat accompany the Black Guard can actually be killed by spells like Frostlance and Way of Death.

    This last bit isn't something that needs to be changed, but I just made the coolest discovery: if you cast Fujin's Breath immediately followed by Frostlance and then blink (from the item), both projectiles and the blink will terminate at the same point, like so:



    It's simply beautiful. 500+ burst damage, leaving your hero right next to the slowed victim. I can't wait to use it in-game. Running after Fujin's Breath with Skywalker on should work well, too.



    Re: Beta-testing?

    nooK - 10.07.2006, 16:50


    Quote: I'm pretty sure the voice set you used for the Onmyoji is one I recommended, in which case I have to apologise for such a bone-headed suggestion. You can hear the Farseer's wolf barking in the background--I don't know how I missed it earlier--and that's just not right. What's more, the voice is just too old and grizzly. Try the Lich voice set instead.
    Already changed it before reading your post ;)

    Quote: The new Ninja voice set, which I also suggested, is also pretty terrible. It's kind of embarassing, really--I listened to it (and the Farseer's) in a normal map and thought they fit really well, but now that I see/hear the model and the voiceset in combination, I realise that it's actually a very bad fit. Probably the voice set currently used by the merc Ninja would be best for the hero.
    Hm in German Wc3 it doesn´t sound bad for me, don´t know..
    And no to the merc ninja voice, doesn´t fit the ninja hero at all IMO.

    Quote: The blink dagger has no honour cost--surely this isn't right? Skywalker Boots need honour, so blink definitely should. Either that or remove the honour cost from Skywalker. To be frank, I think removing it from Skywalker would be the better option, as the honour cost often means that the first hero to get a kill will get it immediately, making it impossible for his opponent to kill him in return and probably ensuring him a couple more kills. A vital utility item like Skywalker shouldn't be dependent on honour.
    Your argumentation is a bit strange, if so no item should have honor cost.
    And if Skywalker needs one, and Dagger not you can still save up for dagger if you get pwnt at the start and have no honor.

    Quote: As for Skywalker itself, I think the cooldown is now intolerably long. It seemed long even when the duration of the effect was insanely long; now the cooldown seems never-ending. Reduce it a little, please.
    120s cooldown -> 80s cd.

    Quote: The cast range on Frostlance and Fujin's Breath is much shorter than the actual range of the projectile. If there's no compelling reason for this (and I don't think there is), could the cast range be increased to match the actual range? It wouldn't make the skill any better in the hands of an experienced player, but would make it much more user-friendly for those new to the game/hero. Oh, and there should definitely be something in the Fujin's Breath description to say let the player know just how much slow it inflicts.
    Hm if I increase Casting Range on Frostlance it`s harder to hit IMO.
    Player uses it at max casting range, enemy just moves a bit -> out of range, lance misses.
    Fujin would be much easier to aim with your suggestion, don`t know if we want that?



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Aray - 10.07.2006, 20:49


    Got the e-mail tegeus, gonna test it right now :) But, from this picture, it looks like SL is still using the old terrain? I thought there was a new terrain coming up :(



    Re: Beta-testing?

    tegeus-Cromis - 11.07.2006, 01:12


    nooK: Yay for the Skywalker cooldown and Onmoyji voice.

    -

    Quote: Hm in German Wc3 it doesn´t sound bad for me, don´t know..
    And no to the merc ninja voice, doesn´t fit the ninja hero at all IMO.

    Maybe it's just me, then.

    Quote: Your argumentation is a bit strange, if so no item should have honor cost.

    Not really. Most items just improve your combat capabilities, but the MS boost/blink give an incomparable boost to chasing and escaping. I think that attaching an honour cost amplifies the advantages of getting the first kill too much.

    Quote: And if Skywalker needs one, and Dagger not you can still save up for dagger if you get pwnt at the start and have no honor.

    Well, I suppose that does make sense.

    Quote: Hm if I increase Casting Range on Frostlance it`s harder to hit IMO.
    Player uses it at max casting range, enemy just moves a bit -> out of range, lance misses.

    I don't really see that as a problem--it's not really meant to be targetted directly at an enemy anyway, IMHO.

    I guess it's an AOS convention for wave-type abilities to project further than their cast range, but I just don't see a good reason here. No big deal, though; this is just a minor user-friendliness issue that doesn't affect balance. :)

    Quote: Fujin would be much easier to aim with your suggestion, don`t know if we want that?

    I don't think that's true, since you'll be nerfing the projectile speed.

    Aray: Quote: Got the e-mail tegeus, gonna test it right now But, from this picture, it looks like SL is still using the old terrain? I thought there was a new terrain coming up

    Have fun. And no, there is not new terrain at the moment. Oh well. You can't have everything immediately. :P



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Kouenzan - 11.07.2006, 12:50


    hey, who's the new terrainer?? :lol:



    Re: Beta-testing?

    nooK - 11.07.2006, 16:16


    Quote: I guess it's an AOS convention for wave-type abilities to project further than their cast range, but I just don't see a good reason here. No big deal, though; this is just a minor user-friendliness issue that doesn't affect balance.
    Its so in ladder too.

    Contacted another good terrainer maybe he will do it, we`ll see.



    Re: Beta-testing?

    tegeus-Cromis - 12.07.2006, 09:14


    Quote: Its so in ladder too.

    Is it? I guess I just got pwnt. -_-

    Good luck with the terrain!



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Davis - 05.08.2006, 03:33

    Clan
    nook me and my friends in Clan Oni can help u test and with all these people lol

    if u wanna find us....go to channel "Clan Oni"



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Anton - 15.08.2006, 03:44


    helo im a new mwmber and iv been playing 0.7 the last fuw weeks(lots) with my frends. we love it! i was wondeing if it is posible to get a copy of the bata test. i will not distribute it and would wership eny1 who could pas it on to me :D . my email is tm_genril@hotmail.com
    and if eny one would find it easyer to contact me on batil net then my acount name is "Anton044" and i play on lorderon. also my self and my freands are in the prosess of making a SL clan :P and if eny one is intersted then please seend me a masage :) p.s. this map rocks!!! :P Nook rocks!!!



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Omerta - 15.08.2006, 08:02


    I may send you 0.8 B6 if Nook gives permission, but I think I'd rather keep the amount of people that have the latest beta low. More fun for the public to play finished 0.8 than betas that have few balance issues. (I still think tower armour is too low. :L)



    Re: Beta-testing?

    tegeus-Cromis - 15.08.2006, 18:00


    What, it's up to B6 already?? I can't help but feel that at this point, maybe nooK should just release the damn thing. -_-



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Omerta - 15.08.2006, 18:05


    Nook still lacks Chill wind. :P



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Anonymous - 16.08.2006, 00:32


    ok thats no problem Omtera just tryign to be helpful :wink: i gess il just hav to survive like every1 elce till 0.8 is relesaed :) hope u hav lots of fun :D and i understand that u wouldnt want beta vershions runing round everywhere cos it would just give ppl a bad inpreshion of this awsum map(u no playign a unbalanced game).



    Re: Beta-testing?

    Anton - 16.08.2006, 00:34


    wops forgot to log in befor i posted. the post from the gest is mine :P
    (sory bout that



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